I shall address the 'universal evil' issue later, but would like to share here a topical correspondence from August 23rd, 2005. This is a correspondence between Robert Kernodle and Tony B. with input from April (on this forum). Thanks, Tony. I figured that you would take such an approach, which brings us back to the "chicken/egg" paradox. Respectfully (and always with admiration for your ideas), I differ from you in that I think that something overshadows BOTH chicken and egg. >>You are asolutely correct here Robert and I could not agree more with you. But can you see that this 'overshadow' is the chicken before it was formed and the egg before it was even thought off? Your bible says so in genesis 2.4-5: "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground." Pure gnosis and encoded omniscience Robert. 'Take it away from the religious literalists AND take it away from the antireligious literalists AND give it to the gnostic religion and the gnostic science for interpretation. Do NOT go to the non-gnostic priest or the non-gnostic scientist for advice; go to the gnostic advicer, because you shall be greatly confused in mind if you attempt to read this either emotionally-religiously or intellectually/academically-scientifically. Gnostic advisor would say (dialogue with a scientist and a believer say): ""Easy my friend; the heavens and the earth are allegory (thank you April) for the physics and the metaphysics as generally used in your vocabulary. So when it says before the earth, it means before the physical whatever. Now compare it to say an apple-tree or a rooster. Gnostic: Where did the finished 'product' of the apple-tree come from? Scientist: From its seed. Believer: The bible says from God, he created the apple tree. Gnostic: Both Correct, and where did the seed come from? Scientist: From the programmed DNA/RNA. Believer: Ah this provbes science wrong, because the scriptures say,that the apple-tree was created before its seed in the ground by Gen.2.5. God did it. Gnostic: Both correct, and where did the DNA/RNA and God come from? Scientist: This is the chicken-egg dichotomy. We are gathering more and more evidence, that the RNA is precursive to the DNA from the beginnings of cellular and bacterial lifeforms. Because the chicken is basically protein/amino acids and the egg can be linked to viral absorption by bacteria without DNA becoming its DNA, say in bacteriophages; the DNA is basically a viral mutation of primordial genes in endosymbiosis with primordialRNA as collection of nucleotidal petides. Then those organic molecules occur in bifurcated enantiomated formations of chirality/crystalline forms of isomerism. In living things the DNA/RNA's sugar-phosphate bases are predominatly righthanded with lefthanded amino acids. But in nonorganic molecular arrangements of thje amino acids and constituients show equalprobabilities to exist in a natural way. Subsequently science now suspects that the basic lefthandedness of radioactivity responsible for nucleosynthesis and the creation of the atomic elements has become transformed from the subatomic scale onto the scales of biological evolution. Then the origins of the neutron and the fundamental forces of physics must be the cause for the observance of allphenomena including the biological ones. So in terms of science, we would say that the chicken as the DNA engaged in a synthesis with the egg as the RNA, the RNA being more a manifestor of incumbent DNA than the other way around however. The DNA then becomes rthe agency for the incumbency tomanifest itself in the advancement of the evolutionary process. Believer: God made the DNA/RNA and God is eternal. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the subatomic neutron and eternity? Scientist: The neutron is a vibrating superstring, a specialmanifestation of the Planck-Scale, which defines the limits for all physicalmeasurement because of its interdimensional selfconsistency allowing all of physics to transmutate into pure mathematics, that is metaphysics. We call this the Big Bang,when both time and space were created from a spacetimeless realm, where such definitions cease to have any physical meaning whatsoever. The neutron became a consequence of conservation laws in energy and momentum in many associations to manifest a bifurcation ofpolarities, say gravity of contraction and radiation of expansion. Believer: God made eternity, because he is eternity through his word, this is clearly defined in John.1.1. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the Big Bang and who made the Word, because John.1.1 clearly says that the Word preceded God? Scientist: Well, we have discovered a multiverse or megaverse scenario where there could exist epochs of 'banging' say in the collission of braned universes as initiatingh certain great cosmic cyclicities of banging and antibangings/crunches. We also have discoverd a Planck-Length-Bouncing, which allows the transmutation of the Big Bang physical parameters such as length and time to be redefined in a preBig Bang scenario of unified charge settings. Those settings broke symnmetry and manifested in the Big bang as 4 fundamentalforces, modified in a fifth. So now we scientist have found synthesis with the old choices of our models allowing a harmony between them. Instead of an expanding universe or a static universe in competition, we can superpose and have them both in one. We can now confidently say, that the Big bang made itself, there is no preCreator necessary to bring the universe as we know it into existence. Believer: Good question, but scripture answers this in John.1.1: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." So the Word and God are the same thing and made each other. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the process of this oscillating universe and the equality between God and the Word? Scientist: The Laws of Nature. Believer: The Law of God. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the Laws of Nature and the Laws of God? Scientist: Nature of course. Believer: God of course. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made Nature and who made God? Scientist: Nature just exists and God is a human invention. Believer: God just exists and made everything. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made existence to exist? Scientist: Existence is the antitheme to Nonexistence, because I exist I exist. One of us has encapsulated this in: "Cogito ergo sum!" I think, therefore I am! (Descartes). Believer: Exodus.3.14: "I am That I am!" is the name of God given to Moses in the burning bush of the holy ground on Mount Horeb. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the "Cogito ergo sum!" and the "I am That I am"? Scientist: Those are just words of philosophy, created by the thinkers. Believer: Moses must have heared God's voice in his language to have been able to pass this holy name on, but God's voice on Mount Horeb made or uttered his own name. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made philosophical thought and God's voice? Scientist: The experience and history of the human race in toto and huam ingenuity and inventiveness. Believer: God simply has a voice in some manner to pass on his Word, say through the prophets, like Moses. Gnostic: Both right, and who made thought and the prophets? Scientist: Thought is related to consciousness and connectivity of neural network in the human CPU known as the brain and prophets are just humans, often selfdeluded in hearing imaginary voices from the supernatural. Believer: God calls and inspires the prophets, if they are of pure heart and if they have overcome their inborn sinful nature. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the thought and the consciousness and the neural network interrelated and the pure heart and the sinful nature? Scientist: Nature. Believer: The pure heart is with God and the sinful nature is with the Devil. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made nature and God and the Devil? Scientist: We have been there before, this is a circular argument. Nature just exists, it just is and God and Devil are mystical human inventions of superstitious supernaturalism. Believer: The bible says that God and Devil are the same and not the same, because in Job there is Satan as a challenger to God about Job not being temptable to curse God for his misfortunes and then there is the temptation in the wildernness in regards to Jesus and some of our expert theologians also know that a scriptural distinction between Lucifer, Devil and Satan is necessary, that these are three different beings in some sense. Yet Isaiah clearly states that the Lord created both good and evil and that he is the author of everything and responsible for everything good and bad under the sun and moon and heavens. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the circular argument, the tautology and the Lord of both 'Good and Evil' and the three characterisations of Lucifer, Devil and Satan? Scientist: The tautology is simply a question of logic and of mathematics and of definition. Believer: God made, invented and is everything. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made mathematics, logic and God? Scientist: Mathematics is a human cultural invention in one school of thought and is a description of idealised form, say Platonic in another. Believer: God made himself by his Word. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the distinction between the Platonic and NonPlatonic realm or mode of thinking and who made the God his own Word? Scientist: Mankind. Believer: God. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made Mankind and who made God? Scientist: Mankind evolved from Homo sapiens forms like homo habilis, homo erectus, the australopithecines and the ape-sapiens divergence from the Darwinian tree of life continually miodified and added to in data base as new discoveries are made. God is a metaphysical human invention. Believer: God created Mankind in the Garden of Eden and himself by his Word. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made evolution, the tree of life and the Garden of Eden? Scientist: Nature, Darwinian classification schemes and the Garden of Eden is metaphysical supernaturalism. Believer: There is a Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden which was made by God, who made everything. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made Nature and God and the Tree of Life in two places at once, in the classification schemes of Darwin's science and in the Garden of Eden, metaphysical to the scientist and physical to the Believer? Scientist: Nature just exists and the rest is just word play between different ways of classifying and perceiving philosophical things within a shared physical reality and a mental reality which is often unreal relative to physical science and is not shared by all in common perception. Believer: God allows the good and the evil to coexist until judgement day, but God made everything. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made the distinction between the real and the unreal relative to the perceiver and who allows the distinction between the good and the evil to be made? Scientist: Mankind and it's philosophies. Believer: The Devil tries to lead mankind onto the path of evil and mankind must repent to find God again. This would be impossible for mankind, were it not for our saviour Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that we should live. So because of Jesus, we can return to God if we repent from our sins and if and only if we choose to follow our saviour and call upon his name. Gnostic: Both correct, and who made mankind, it's philosophies and Jesus as mankind's redeemer? Scientist: Mankind evolved and if the mythological Jesus ever existed as a real person, then he had a father and a mother and was descended from the apes and the tree of life like everyone else. Believer: God is Jesus' father and God made mankind and allows it it's philosophies to choose the Ways of God over the Ways of the Devil? Gnostic: Both right, and who made Evolution of Mankind and the Choosing of the two ways of Good and Evil possible? Scientist: This is a circular argument, Evolution is Existence, which is a blending of Philosophy with the analysis of an ever growing data base, subject to investigation as to the Nature of Nature, which just exists. Believer: It was because of the Fall and the Original Sin, that the Choosing between the two ways is made possible. Either one chooses God with Jesus or the Devil and the World. Gnostic: Both right, and who made the philosophies and the data base and the Original Sin, as the agency to effect the ability to choose? Scientist: Mankind made everything philosophical in correspondence with the data supplied by Nature. Science studies Nature's evidence about herself. Believer: God made everything and it was the choosing of Eve to eat from the apple tree, that the foriginal sin of the disobedience eventuated. Gnostic: Both right, and who made Nature to be called a She in Science? Scientist: Ah, that is a remnant of the history and development of science. It'sa sort of ancient heirloom, like calling astronomical objects and discovery after mythological characters like Andromeda and Venus and Mercury. Nature is personified in such a wayas a leftover from the birth of the sciences from alchemy becoming chemistry and astrology transmutating into astronomy. It would be a way to relate Nature as She to He, which is the God of Superstition. One must accept, that the birth of science and the scientific method in the renaissance and thereabouts in the West, had a forerunner all founded on established religion and dogmatic metaphor and associations. Believer: Eve is called the Mother of all Living and Adam did name her so in Gen.3.20: "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living." Gnostic: Both right, and now you have converged in the circular argument and solved the great secret of gnosis."" Because Eve is the Nature of Science as the prime and original cause of Existence and as SHE is the Mother of all living and as accepted by the Believer, one can easily deduce that Adam is the Man and Son of God, which does the NAMING as the WORD of all things. So every name calling scientist is the Word and also the Son of God who is the encoding of the redeemer, say Jesus in the footsteps of Adam. And every Believer calling upon the name of Jesus is also the Word and so becomes equal to the scientist in the two ways of perception. In betwen you have the Name calling artists and inventors who simply take a bit of both in the same final outcome, being Adam=Son of God. Because the distinctions are made by the philosophies of mankind, which were caused by the Original Sin/Ignorance of not being able to choose, and the CHOICE was made by Science's NATURE as the Believer's EVE; the eating of the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden caused the Believer in EVE (namely Adam) to suddenly make a distinction between 'Good and Evil' so barring him from accessing the Tree of Life and Knowledge, namely the Darwinian Tree of Life of Science. Because NATURE just exists without prior cause EVE exists without prior cause, relative to the scientist, leading to the circular argument as exemplified in this discourse. The Believer, through applied gnosis of the WORD, then REDEEMS the scientist because heshe knows (through scripture) where Eve came from. As Eve is the CREATION in toto, the Believer can proclaim in all confidence: The CREATION was made by her CREATOR, which is Adam from God. The Scientist translates this by hisher own agenda as NATURE MADE HERSELF or the UNIVERSE CAME INTO BEING JUST BY ITSELF. The Beliver's circular argument always returns to God by his Word as the prime cause, and the Scientist REDEEMS the Believer in confidently proclaiming: There is no CREATOR, the CREATION created HERSELF by the NATURAL LAWS. And then the gnosis CAN illuminate the Believer as to what the WORD of God must BE; nothing BUT THE LAWS OF NATURE, because of the convergence of the two ways, which could be chosen in their extremes 100% Scientist or 100% Believer. Then the LAWS OF NATURE CAN become GNOSTIC - that is APPLIED in the two hitherto incompatible ways. All gnostic scripture are the Word of God and ALLOW the Laws of Nature to become discovered, rediscovered, reinterpreted, illuminated, extended etc.etc.in anyones gnostic insight. Only the GNOSIS of understanding BOTH, the allegories and scriptural stories, mythologies and pathos AND the basic methods and ways of science through the histories of both, Science and Religion, can synthesise the two options or choices harmoniously. And it all started with the 'seed of an apple', the apple in the eye of HE and SHE as the creators of it all as THEIR own individual STORY of selfredemption, just in thinking Separation in Unity and not Unity in Separation. To be separated from the One you Love is the most Painful experience of humanity. Now ponder this. To be separated a certain distance or time, and awaiting the other's return is Separation in Unity, because the Love and Longing Passion and expectation is all there - there is a FINITE spacetime between the Lovers. But what if that spacetime is INFINITE in a Unity of yourself as Being yourself AND ALONE, your LOVER being eternally far away. How the Love is shattered and the Longing Passion and the Expectations. That is why the Infinite Universe of localised Unity is the BURDEN of the present world. The localised unity are the power groups and elites, the 'royal blood' and concentration of influence etc. etc. That is the dilemma for the group-mind right now and here. The Unity in Separation is empowered and the UNIFICATION OF MONEY, I give you a gnostic hint of what the DEVIL, ruining the entire physical and emotional and mental world really is. DEVIL=4+5+22+9+12=52=6+9+14+1+14+3+5=FINANCE. There you have it from the GWMD-APDN of the 24th. Now you can superpose your conspiracy theories (most of which are partially very true despite the agenda of widespread seeding of misinformation from many many quarters), your economic models and your alternative sciences upon this 'master-seed' of deception and corruption. I choose very rarely to give messages like this, but this one had to be given. The encoding mystery is minimal. See Robert Kernodle, our agreement on the evolution/creation stupidity triggered something in me to compose this. I had no prior intent to write this, and you have, through your gnostic insights, allowed my sources to give this information to the world. This message so is,one might say, sponsored by Robert K. Thank you Robert. In appreciation Tony B.