Transfer Thread

Discussion in 'Testing Thread' started by shiloh za-rah, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. shiloh za-rah

    shiloh za-rah Planetary Rebirth


    Raven de Sophias

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2014
  2. shiloh za-rah

    shiloh za-rah Planetary Rebirth

    dragon sue - posted Feb 4th

    Hello dragon elders!
    My question is this: "Who or what is this 'antichrist' and the 'mark of the beast'?
    Thank you all for your answers.
    dragon sue
  3. shiloh za-rah

    shiloh za-rah Planetary Rebirth

    The 24+1 Dragon Elder Phoenix Moons of the Endtimes 2 Years 'After the Flood' from December 16th, 2013 to December 15th, 2015

    {original moon template shared by Susan Serafina}

    The 24+1 Dragon Elder Moons of the Endtimes from September 5th, 2013 to August 25th, 2014 for 8 Moons before 2 Years 'After the Flood' from December 16th, 2013 to December 15th, 2015


    New Elder Moons in 12 Odd Male Number Signs + Lucifer HermesTribeFull Elder Moons in 12 Even Female Number Signs + Aphrodite Lucifera
    01 = 05 September 2013 ?at 11:36UCT-----Virgo Moon in Virgo Sun7=Gad02 = 19 September 2013 at 11:13UCT-----Pisces Moon in Virgo Sun
    03 = 05 October 2013 at 00:34UCT-----Libra Moon in Libra Sun6=Naphtali04 = 18 October 2013 at 23:38UCT------Aries Moon in Libra Sun
    05 = 03November 2013 at 12:50UCT-----Scorpio Moon in Scorpio Sun8=Asher06 = 17 November 2013 at 15:17UCT-----Taurus Moon in Scorpio Sun
    07 = 03 December 2013 at 00:22UCT-----Sagittarius Moon in Sagittarius Sun9=Issachar08 = 17 December 2013 at 09:29UCT-----Gemini Moon in Sagittarius Sun
    09 = 01 January 2014 at 11:15UCT-----Capricorn Moon in Capricorn Sun10=Zebulon10 = 16 January 2014 at 04:54UCT-----Cancer Moon in Capricorn Sun
    11 = 30 January 2014 at 21:41UCT-----Aquarius Moon in Aquarius Sun12=Joseph12 = 14 February 2014 at 23:55UCT-----Leo Moon in Aquarius Sun
    13 = 01 March 2014 at 08:03UCT-----Pisces Moon in Pisces Sun13=Benjamin14 = 16 March 2014 at 17:11UCT-----Virgo Moon in Pisces Sun
    15 = 30 March 2014 at 18:48UCT-----Aries Moon in Aries Sun1=Reuben16 = 15 April 2014 at 07:45UCT-----Libra Moon in Aries Sun for Total Lunar Eclipse
    17 = 29 April 2014 at 06:18UCT-----Taurus Moon in Taurus Sun for Annular Solar Eclipse2=Simeon18 = 14 May 2014 at 19:19UCT-----Scorpio Moon in Taurus Sun
    19 = 28 May 2014 at 18:43UCT-----Gemini Moon in Gemini Sun3=Levi20 = 13 June 2014 at 04:14UCT-----Sagittarius Moon in Gemini Sun
    21 = 27 June 2014 at 08:11UCT-----Cancer Moon in Cancer Sun5=Dan22 = 12 July 2014 at 11:27UCT-----Capricorn Moon in Cancer Sun
    23 = 26 July 2014 at 22:43UCT-----Leo Moon in Leo Sun4=Judah24 = 10 August 2014 at 18:11UCT-----Aquarius Moon in Leo Sun
    25 = 25 August 2014 at 14:13UCT-----Omega Moon in Virgo Sun11=Dinah26 = 09 September 2014 at 01:39UCT-----Alpha Moon in Eagle Sun
    27 = 24 September 2014 at 06:14UCT-----Alpha Moon in Libra Sun14=Ophiuchus28 = 08 October 2014 at 10:51UCT-----Omega Moon in Arachne Sun for Total Lunar Eclipse
    29 = 23 October 2014 at 21:56UCT----Eagle Moon in Scorpio Sun for Partial Solar Eclipse15=Arachne30 = 06 November 2014 at 22:23UCT-----Dragon-Phoenix Moon in Ophiuchus Sun
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2014
  4. shiloh za-rah

    shiloh za-rah Planetary Rebirth

    2. The Ephod of Melchizedek -
    the Twinned Rainbow Serpent of Israel's Abrahamic Starseed Legacy

    b_plate. choshen-ephod.
    ezek00. ezek0.

    The Combined Ephod of the Breastplate of Melchizedek stations the Mosaic Upper Rainbow in Exodus of the order of the Birth of Jacob's Sons superpositioned onto the Lower Rainbow of Revelation.
    To harmonise and match the upper and lower Rainbows, the gemstones are exchanged under the auspices of the fixed station of the Levitical priesthood as the Right Upper Corner of Leah's Ephod and in diagonal mirror to the Left Lower Corner fixed in the Emerald of Judah.

    1. [Carbuncle/Chalcedony] is fixed as House of Levi in the Right Upper Corner of the Leah Half of the Ephod.
    2. [Sardius/Jasper]+[Diamond/Sardius] → [Sardius/Sardius]+[Diamond/Jasper] and sets the House of Reuben as the Left Upper Corner of Leah's Ephod.
    3. [Diamond/Jasper]+[Sapphire/Sardonyx] →
    [Diamond/Sardonyx]+[Sapphire/Jasper] and sets the House of Zebulon as the Right Lower Corner for Leah.
    4. [Sapphire/Jasper]+[Topaz/Sapphire] → [Sapphire/Sapphire]+[Topaz/Jasper] and fixates the House of Issachar as the Middle Lower Gem for Leah.
    5. [Topaz/Jasper]+[Amethyst/Topaz] → [Topaz/Topaz]+[Amethyst/Jasper] setting the House of Simeon as the Middle Upper Gemstone for Leah's Ephod.
    6. [Amethyst/Jasper]+[Jasper/Amethyst] → [Amethyst/Amethyst]+[Jasper/Jasper] setting theHouse of Gad as the Upper Right Corner and fixating the House of Benjamin as the Lower Right Corner for the Ephod of Rachel.
    7. [Emerald/Emerald] defines the House of Judah as the Left Lower Corner of Leah's Ephod in diagonal mirroring in the Gemstone of Levi.
    8. [Beryl/Chrysoprasus]+[Agate/Beryl] → [Beryl/Beryl]+[Agate/Chrysoprasus] setting the House of Asher as the Lower Left Corner for Rachel's Ephod.
    9. [Agate/Chrysoprasus]+Ligure/Chrysolite] → [Agate/Chrysolite]+[Ligure/Chrysoprasus] setting the House of Naphtali as the Middle Upper Gemstone for Rachel's Ephod and fixing the House of Dan as the Upper Left Corner for Rachel's Lower Half of the superposed Ephod.
    10. [Onyx/Jacinth] then completes the combined two halves of the Ephod in the House of Joseph, then twinned as the House of Manasseh+Ephraim in the Middle Lower Gemstone of Rachel's Firstborn separated from Leah's Lastborn by the Twinship of Dinah-Serah; Dinah being the Daughter of Leah and Jacob and Serah being the Daughter of Asher and so the Granddaughter of Jacob and Granddaughter of Zilpah by Leah in the extension of the Generations of Israel.

    The Ephod positions 1 to 12 are so completed in a sequence of the Southern Gate of {Levi-Reuben}-{Zebulon-Issachar-Simeon} Cornered in Reuben as the Upper Left Corner and Judah as the Upper Right Corner and with the adjudicator Levi in between.
    This Upper Sequence mutates the Ephod of Leah and becomes mirrored in the Ephod of Rachel in the priesthood of Levi the Twin (to Simeon; Genesis.49.5-7) reflecting in the two halftribes of Joseph as Manasseh+Ephraim.
    The Davidic Priesthood of Zadok so supercedes the Highpriest of Levi in the Tribe of Joseph and so connects the Sons of Leah as the Upper Rainbow with the Lower Rainbow of the Sons of Bilhah, Zilpah and Rachel.

    ezek3. ezek4.

    The Measurements are in Reeds (not Cubits for 1 Cubit=18 Inches=1.5 Feet=45 cm) for 1 Reed=6 Cubits=9 Feet=108 Inches=270 cm
    The Holy Portion so spans a Square of 25,000x25,000 Square Reeds or about 67.5x67.5 Square Kilometers.
    The Temple of Solomon becomes a Square of 4,500x4,500 Square Reeds or about 12.15x12.15 Square Kilometers as the 'City of Dark Light'

    Northern Gate = Reuben-Judah-Levi
    Eastern Gate = Joseph-Benjamin-Dan
    Southern Gate = Simeon-Issachar-Zebulon
    Western Gate = Gad-Asher-Naphtali

    This is the tribal sequence as given in Ezekiel.48; of {Dan-(Asher-Naphtali)}-(Joseph=Manasseh+Ephraim)-{Reuben-Judah-[Levi-Zadok-Joseph]-Benjamin-{Simeon-Issachar-Zebulon}-Gad and where Dan and Gad are the firstborns of the Handmaidens Bilhah and Zilpah respectively as the Beginning and the End of the Transformation mechanics of the exchaning of the gemstones.

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  5. shiloh za-rah

    shiloh za-rah Planetary Rebirth

    SUSANakaTHE13THBRIDGE - Posted Feb 14th


    "i am, that i am, has been graduated to: we are that we are" - susan lynne schwenger
    Question: how does that alter the equations ?

    Jorgelito - Posted Feb 14th


    Q: How does that alter the equations?


    I'd say if you were a snake, you were probably a proactive snake who just unloaded a whole bunch of skin.
    In one sense, nothing has changed -- not one iota
    -- if we refer to our ultimate ground of our being - whatever that might be -- however we might describe it ---We Are or I Am -- because THAT does not change -- because THAT is what we are since before time even existed.
    What can change and often does without notice is the how, when, where, why, what and who. Come to think, those are the only things we humans seem to think about!
    There is a definite outward bias in our consciousness. We enjoy talking on about what we create (who, what why and the drama) but not too much about we ourselves. It may go back to the beginning of things -- where the food (life) for an amoeba was something outside and external. Below is an amoeba having dinner (SciencePhotoLibrary)


    When we forgo the bias of "cannot" "should not" "not me" we create an environment of freedom in which the impossible can sometimes happen -- because many can work together to make it happen.


    Post last edited Feb 17th
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2014
  6. admin

    admin Well-Known Member Staff Member

    SUSANakaTHEEXCHANGER - Posted Feb 6th

    Jesus Christ, Bible Code, Scientific proof of God’s existence

    For many centuries, philosophers and theologians, and scientists have sought ways to proof the existence of God.
    From Aristotle, Socrates, Pythagoras, Rene Descartes, to Albert Einstein. Some had debated that, the universe was a random coincidence or chance of events.
    Scientists have postulated a big bang theory, of some kind of explosion.
    Others have argued that there is an intelligent mind behind all of creation, and Ken Nunoo, author of the books The Trinity of Lights,
    and The Seed Master, says he has uncovered a unique bible code, that mathematically proofs the existence of God.

    Ken Nunoo explained that he discovered this bible code from the musical scale of the piano, and today Jesus Christ perhaps has the last laugh.
    Ken Nunoo, who is a new age composer explained that he arranged the seven notes of the musical piano in a vertical column, which are C,D,E,F,G,A,B.

    He then extracted seven letters from the seventh letter from each of the letters and came up with I, L, N, P, A, Q, M. He then again extracted the seventh letter from each of the letters and came up with O, Z, T, U, R, S, X. He then assigned numerical values to the letters extracted in sequence, and came up with the table of the bible code thus: 1. C/K 8. I/Y 15. O 2. D 9. L 16. Z 3. E 10. N 17. T 4. F 11. P 18. U/V/W 5. G 12. H 19. R 6. A 13. Q 20. S 7. B 14. M 21. X

    Here is the first mystery of the table of the bible code. We know that God in the old testament is referred to as ELOHIM.

    Now from the table starting from the letter E, count seven letters down to the next column to the letter L. From the letter L, count seven letters down to the next column and it comes to the letter O.
    From the letter O, count seven letters anti-clockwise to the first column and it comes to the letter A. From the letter A, count seven letters to the next column and it comes to the letter H.
    From the letter H, count seven letters to the next column and it comes to the letter U. The whole word is closed by the letter M. The letters extracted form the word ELOAHUM.

    The second mystery, beginning from the letter Y, count seven letters anti-clockwise through the first column and it comes to the letter A. From the letter A,
    count seven letters to the next column and it comes to the letter H. From the letter H, count seven letters to the next column and it comes to the letter W.
    From the letter W, count seven letters anti-clockwise through the first column and it comes to the letter E. The letters extracted is closed with the letter H.
    The word extracted forms the word YAHWEH.

    The third mystery, taking the first line of Genesis, substitute the numerical values of the table into the Hebrew text of the bible and you get this.

    This text is from Trinity of Lights, by Ken Nunoo
    No of letters Hebrew Text numerical values sum 7 BERESIT 7,3,19,3,20,8,17 77 4 BARA 7,6,19,6 38 7 ELOAHUM 3,9,15,6,12,1814 77 2 ET 3,17 20 9 HASAMAYIM 12,6,20,6,14,6,8,8,14 94 4
    VEET 18,3,3,17 41 7 HAARETS 12,6,6,19,3,17,20 83 TOTAL=40 430 Now we know Jesus was referred to as Emmanuel.

    Using the code to translate this word into numbers you get. EMMANUEL = 3,14,14,6,10,18,3,9 = 77. Further the word CHRIST = 1,12,19,8,20,17 = 77.
    Now there is another LEMINEHU, meaning Seed found in another section of the bible which translates to LEMINEHU = 9,3,14,8,10,3,12,18 = 77.
    When you put all these together you get BERESIT = 77 = LEMINEHU = 77 = ELOAHUM = 77 = EMMANUEL = 77 = CHRIST = 77.
    This text in plain English means Christ is Emmanuel, Emmanuel is God, God is the Seed, and the Seed is the beginning.
    The science of the angels is the faith of mankind. Recommended New Ages songs by Ken Nunoo
    Chant of the first flame Chant of the second flame Chant of the third flame
    267th Key Oceans 1
    260th Key Oceans 2
    261st Key Oceans 3
    342nd Key Black of Darkness
    332nd Key Aleph
    333rd Key Beth
    334th Key Gimel
    213rd Key Darkness
    160th Key Latin Seashore Beth,Resh,Kaph,Tau BARAKATA…
    May blessings be upon you Ken Nunoo

    Some people might NOT know how you get 77 for Christ:
    In certain numerological systems based on the English alphabet, the number 77 is associated with Jesus Christ].

    CHRIST is C = 3, H = 8, R = 18, I = 9, S = 19, T = 20, which added together equal 77.
    'Liber 77' is the gematrian name for Liber OZ- a brief but popular publication by Aliester Crowley.
    The word 'oz', which means 'strength', is composed of two hebrew letters- ayin andzayin, which have gematrian values of 70 and 7 respectively, thus adding up to 77.

  7. admin

    admin Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Open Statement from Thuban to the Mists Of Avalon forum
    Unpalatable replies can easily be deleted by the 'omniscient scepter holders' to hide their own administrative incompetencies!
    When trying to sign in today I discovered this, imagine my surprise.
    You have been banned from this forum.
    Until 14/01/2016
    For the reason : repeated posting graphic images of abused child
    So then I started looking at the forums and I found this by Carol:
    Re: Paris Shooting: 10 Ways It Looks Like a Hallmark False Flag Op

    Post Carol Yesterday at 6:24 pm




    In addition any banned member who uses another members account to post will be banned permanently and the member who allows the banned member to use their account will have a temporary ban.

    Now Carol, as you may well know by now that Shiloh and I post together a lot and often share postings and collaboration on our works, why the hell is it only me that is banned and not both of us??

    We will not be intimidated by the denial of the truth and so you must ban both of us as a matter of principle and not just one of us. We have both been posting these images in our desire to inform and tell the truth about Islam and not bury it under political correctness and lies like the western civilized world would have us do.
    Yes I fully realize the images are disturbing and horrific, but NOW you need to ask yourself who created those images? Did Shiloh and I cause those children to be mutilated beyond recognition or something else?

    Those images are shocking and horrific and this kind of violence is happening in our time, not 2000 years ago, but today. You are a rationally minded human being Carol, so can you answer who is at fault here for the horrific violence that you are choosing to ignore and censor from your forum?

    Or will you do like many people do out of fear, stick your head in the sand and then blame the messenger instead of looking at reality? Why is it that suddenly, on your forum truth telling has become equated to hate speech? I thought you stood for the defense of the truth and that this forum was a place to do just that and not just a forum built on NABS and disinformation, but a beacon in the mists, a lighthouse in the darkness that is our current world. Also YOU might be educated and know of the horrors that Islam is dishing out to its victims but you are not the ONLY person reading this forum.

    There are many people out there who do not realize the atrocities being committed by Islam nor the dangers this poses to western free societies. One of the few ways we can actually fight these atrocities, like it or not, is to illustrate the truth. And in this case a picture is really worth a thousand words, or did you forget that?

    By banning us you are basically allowing the injustice to prevail and the truth to be blown out like a candle in the wind. You prefer to listen to what you want to hear and the silly rhetoric of posters like Pris, Blue Roller, Sophias Choice, ect, than to the voice of truth and reason??

    REALLY? Go ahead and ban me if you must, but then don’t be fuc11ing preferential in your choices and ban both Shiloh and I for as long as you are going to consider the BS over the truth. I
    f posting images that illustrate our modern day reality bother you then you are in deep deep trouble in your denial.

    Shaloma, Raven
    Undersigned Shiloh
    Be consistent Carol in your administration of the Mists of Avalon Forum and like the Camelot and Project Avalon forums before you; ban all Thubans, who offend your sentiments and sensitivities of social etiquette and acceptable tactfulness.

    See the difference between Christian Innocents and Islam innocents Carol?

    Hugh Fitzgerald: Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs (Part 1)
    December 14, 2015 6:39 am By Hugh Fitzgerald 24 Comments

    Sometimes it seems that almost all the news these days deemed fit to print has something to do with Islam and Muslims. Much of it is about internecine warfare: we receive reports of Sunnis fighting Shi’a in Iraq, of Shi’a fighting Sunnis in Syria, of Shi’a ruled fighting Sunni ruler in Bahrain, of Sunni tribesmen fighting Shi’a tribesmen in Yemen, of one city’s militia fighting another city’s militia, as in Libya with fighters from Tripoli, Misrata, Benghazi, Zintan squaring off, or Muslims of different ethnicities fighting one another–Arabs against Kurds in Iraq and Syria, Arabs against Berbers in North Africa, and so on and so confusingly forth, and don’t forget the Turkmens and the Tuareg.

    But with all these permutations and combinations, two things remain constant. The first is the Muslim Arab attitude toward, and attacks on, the ancient Christian communities of the Middle East: the Chaldeans and Assyrians of Iraq, the Orthodox and Catholics in Syria, the Maronites in Lebanon, the Copts in Egypt. The Christian position depends on the regime. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein had his own reasons for protecting the Christians, whom he knew were no threat to him and, indeed, were employed by him as his household staff, but he is long gone, and Muslims have been attacking Christians and more than half of Iraq’s Christians have left the country.

    In Syria, the Alawite regime, a regime that amazingly treats Christmas and Good Friday as official holidays and closes government offices, teeter-totters, and Muslim attacks on Christians have led to many of them leaving that country, too. In Egypt, attacks on the Copts went way up under Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood, tens of thousands left the country, and under Al-Sisi conditions for Copts have returned to their unpleasant normal. Copts still leave, but not at the rate they did under Morsi. And the steady Maronite outflow, the relative and absolute decline in their numbers and in their power, means that Lebanon, once thought of as a Christian haven, has become another Muslim-dominated country where the Christians are just managing to hang on.

    When they leave Syria or Iraq or Egypt or Lebanon, where do these Middle Eastern Christians go? They go to Europe, to Australia, Canada, America. Who can blame them? And thus the Middle East is being emptied of its Christians. Does it matter to you? If you are a Christian, or even a “post-Christian” (someone who may no longer be a Believer in Christianity, but who recognizes that he belongs to the civilization of the West, and that civilization was fashioned by Christianity) don’t you want a Living Christian Presence in the Middle East? Would you not regret what at this point seems inevitable — the disappearance of Christianity from that region?

    The Western powers have not done what they might have to secure the Christians in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the last American intervention on the side of the Christians was the sending of troops in 1958 by Eisenhower. And France, which always regarded itself as the historic protector of the Maronites, did nothing to help them during the Christian-Muslim civil war. The Maronites found themselves formulaically described in the French (leftist) press as the “right-wing Christians,” though there was nothing “right-wing” about them, unless being Christian was to be taken as synonymous with “right-wing.” Eugene Ionesco wittily noted the use of that Homeric epithet in “the newspaper everyone reads” (he was referring to Le Monde, the permanent paper of the French leftist elite).

    The American record of defending imperiled Christians in the Middle East has been dismal. In Iraq, where hundreds of thousands of American troops were stationed, and a gigantic military machine present for a decade, nothing was done to help the Christians. They were not given arms, they were not trained to defend themselves, and the American military has done nothing special to defend them. They seemed not to want to recognize the peculiar plight of the Christians, to pretend that the danger and misery were spread equally.

    And if the Western world has offered so little military support to the Middle Eastern Christians, what about moral support? Has the Vatican, has the World Council of Churches, has any official body of Christians started to worry aloud about what Muslims have done, and are doing with a vengeance right now, to the ancient Christian communities of the Middle East? And why do we not hear of possible places, right in the Middle East, where Christians could live in security if only certain arrangements could be made?

    Hugh Fitzgerald: Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs (Part 2)
    December 15, 2015 8:17 am

    The second great grim given in the Middle East, along with the persecution of ancient Christian communities by Muslims, is the steady under-hum of hate, directed at the Infidel Jewish state of Israel. Through the din of warfare between Sunni and Shi’a, Kurd and Arab, Berber and Arab, Al-Nusra and Al-Qaeda, there is the noise of another warfare: the endless war against Israel.

    This war is a product of the Muslim worldview. In that view, the world is uncompromisingly divided between Dar al-Islam, the Domain of Islam, where Muslims dominate, and Dar al-Harb, the Domain of War, where Muslims do not yet dominate. It is the duty of every Muslim to participate in the struggle or Jihad, to remove all obstacles to the spread, and then the domination, of Islam, everywhere. And they are doing it, through terrorism, and propaganda, and economic warfare, and hijrah, the newest and most dangerous instrument of jihad, jihad through migration into the vulnerable (because confused about the threat they faced) lands of Dar al-Harb.

    Israel’s existence is regarded by Muslims as especially insufferable. For it is an Infidel nation-state, the Infidels in question being the long-despised Jews that sits smack in the middle of Arabdom, contra naturam, an insult to the amour-propre of Muslims everywhere, but especially to Arab Muslims, who conceive of that tiny country metaphorically as either a knife plunged into the heart of Arabdom, or as a cancerous growth in the middle of Arabdom. And you don’t pull a knife out part-way, you don’t cut out only part of a cancerous tumor. In other words, for most Arabs, Israel eventually has to go, to disappear, to become again what it once was, part of Dar al-Islam. Until the Six-Day War, the Arabs never hid — just read their propaganda — the final result they desired — an end to Israel, and by military means. But their colossal defeat in that war, and the loss of the territory that the Jordanians had renamed the “West Bank,” led to an entire rethinking of Arab strategy. They understood that they would now have to use non-military means to recover that “West Bank” through diplomacy.

    That diplomatic maneuvering required the transformation of the local Arabs — those in Israel proper, those in the “West Bank,” and those who had fled Mandatory Palestine in 1948-49 and had been called “Arab refugees” — into the deliberately-created “Palestinian people.” This newly-invented “Palestinian people” would first recover, through negotiations, the “West Bank,” and only then, with Israel pushed back into the armistice lines of 1949, would the Arabs, as many as chose to join in, go in for the kill.

    This Arab strategy of conquest-by-stages has gone pretty well. The existence of the “Palestinian people” has been uncritically accepted, or almost so: Golda Meir always doubted their existence, but that’s not surprising — after all, she was the Prime Minister of Israel. But another who doubted their existence was a “Palestinian” Arab named Zuheir Mohsen, head of the As-Saiqa terrorist group, who confided to a Dutch newspaper that “between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of ONE people, the Arab nation. Look, I have family members with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are ONE people. Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity. There is no such thing as the Palestinian people.”

    And to back up Zuheir Mohsen, you might add that phrase “Palestinian people” was never heard. If, however, you ask someone to explain why that phrase was never heard before late 1967, or what characteristics — language, religion, folktales, anything at all — distinguish this “Palestinian people” from all other Arabs, or ask why the word “Palestinian” should have been promoted from geographic adjective to ethnic noun, well, only embarrassment and confusion will result.

    In the Sinai, the Arabs were very successful. Carter and Brzezinski at Camp David treated Sadat, the ruler of a country that had lost territory in a war of aggression, as a veritable Prince of Peace, who could do no wrong. It was Begin who was put constantly on the defensive, and it was he who was forced to relinquish every inch of the Sinai, with the airfields and the oilfields built by the Israelis, and the entire Sinai, to Saint Sadat, who graciously deigned to accept the gift.

    But on the other side of Israel, on the River Jordan, Israel would not be so compliant. Most Israelis understood that in order to withstand a possible attack from the east, they could not surrender the “West Bank” (called by Israelis “Judea and Samaria”— these were, after all, the toponyms that everyone in Christendom, including Jesus, had used for 2000 years, but now the Western press universally mocked the Israeli use of these place names precisely because they were “Biblical”). For some Israelis, the “West Bank” was indeed a Biblical matter; it was part of the Promised Land. For others, Israel’s claim had a different basis — the Mandate for Palestine, and the territory assigned to that Mandate by the League of Nations.
    For still others, what mattered most were the traditional rules of post-bellum settlements, by which the victor gets to keep some land. Just think of how the map of Europe, for example, changed after every conflict large and small (think of Alsace-Lorraine, or the Alto Adige, or Königsberg) both to discourage future aggressors, and because that land might actually prove vital in a future conflict.

    Some time after the Six-Day War, a group of American generals visited the area of the “West Bank,” and came back, and wrote a report. Their conclusion? Strictly for military reasons, Israel had to hold to that area. For them, neither the Bible nor the Mandate for Palestine needed to be invoked. It was a military matter.

    So here we have, midst the swirl of Muslim turmoil in the Middle East, two melancholy facts, two givens. The first is, as noted in Part 1, that Arab Christians are being driven out of the Middle East. Christianity began in the Middle East; Christians held on in the Middle East for 2000 years; now their numbers are being reduced every day. The Living Christian Presence may end in the Middle East.

    Where might some of those Christians — those Assyrians, Chaldeans, Orthodox, Catholics, Copts — end up in the Middle East, in a place that will offer them security, and may even allow them to be trained and armed to defend themselves? And where might they, merely by staying put in the Middle East, and not fleeing to Europe or Australia or Canada or America, perform the important task of being that Living Christian Presence?

    Hugh Fitzgerald: Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs (Part 3)
    December 16, 2015 11:41 am

    Perhaps, despite all kinds of opposition from the very people who would benefit, a large-scale transfer of peoples were to create a Christian Preserve in the Middle East?

    Following World War I, and the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, the first of the twentieth century’s large-scale transfers of populations took place. By the Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations, which was signed at Lausanne in 1923, the Greek and Turkish governments agreed to the compulsory population exchange of peoples. About 1.5 million Greeks who had been uprooted during the Greek genocide and then by defeat in the Greco-Turkish war were forcibly sent to Greece. Turkey wanted to formalize this exodus, and at the same time to create a new exodus, but from Greece this time, and the people being forced out were Turks, moved to Anatolia where they could repopulate areas from which the Greeks had been moved. And at the same time, the properties left behind by the Turks could be taken over by some of the Greeks expelled from Anatolia.

    This exchange of populations was based on religious identity, and not ethnicity or language. And the goal was to create for each of these countries, Greece and Turkey, if not complete ethnic homogeneity, at least to drastically reduce the numbers of Muslims (Turks and Albanians) in Greece and the number of Orthodox Christians in Turkey.

    The second great population exchange of the twentieth century is that which took place among the Muslims and Hindus of India at the time of Partition. Out of India itself, a second state was carved; it included part of the Punjab to the west, and part of Bengal to the east, and together West Pakistan and East Pakistan formed the Dominion of Pakistan. In 1971, East Pakistan rose in revolt and seceded from the Dominion of Pakistan to become an independent state, called Bangladesh.

    As many as half a million people died in the communal riots between Muslims and Hindus before the Partition. And as part of the general upheaval in this period, 14 to 15 million people, Hindu, Muslim, and Sikh, were uprooted and, as Muslim refugees from India, or as Hindu and Sikh refugees from Pakistan, then resettled in Pakistan or in India. It is impossible to say if the people of India and Pakistan were better off because of the rearranging of populations; it was meant to deal with the effects of communal riots and large-scale homelessness — to put Hindus in mainly-Hindu India, to put Muslims in mainly-Muslim Pakistan.
    Still a third example of large-scale population transfer is that which has gone largely unrecognized: the half-million Arabs who left Mandatory Palestine beginning in November 1947 (when they were urged to leave and to return together with triumphant Arab conquerors — that triumph, and that return, never took place) while, at more or less the same time, 900,000 Jews from all over the Arab lands, from Morocco to Iraq, fled local pogroms and made their way to Israel. This population transfer was not, like that of Greeks and Turks in 1923, or the resettlement of Hindus and Muslims in 1947, the result of a formal treaty. It was simply the result of Arabs listening to other Arabs just before and during Israel’s war for independence, and Jews reacting to the violence visited upon them before, during, and after that war, all over the Middle East and North Africa.

    We have seen that the Christian Arab population all over the Middle East is dwindling. We have reviewed the history of the “West Bank” and its importance for Israel’s survival. Is there any way to join these two themes — to give some Christian Arabs a sure refuge, and to strengthen Israel’s hold, and Israel’s perceived right to hold, on to the “West Bank”?

    Let’s start with the world of the counterfactual. You know what a counterfactual is. It’s that which didn’t happen, but you allow yourself to change that history in your mind, and twist it, to make it go as you would have wished it to. Usually these counterfactuals involve something simple — for example, the killing of some dictator, a Hitler or a Stalin, before he could fully do his murderous damage, thus saving tens of millions of lives. Or someone chooses something a little more complicatedly counterfactual.

    Suppose, for example, we tell ourselves that in their long series of naval battles, Genoa and not Venice had emerged victorious and powerful, and rich. If that had happened, then later in the next century, when a certain Genoan named Cristoforo Colombo sought financial backing for an expedition to find a new western passage to the Indies— the land route now blocked by the Muslims who completed their conquest of Byzantium in 1453 — he did not have to first go to England and Portugal (turned down in both places) or, as he finally and successfully did, to Spain, with the backing of Ferdinand and Isabella and Luis Santangel. No, he could have been backed instead by his very own native city, and would have claimed the New World for Genoa.

    What would that New World look like? Oh, north of the Fiume Grande it would look much the same — the French and English would still have settled North America. But south of that river, what would things be like? Spain’s conquistadores were hardened by the half-millennium of the Reconquista, and thus were aggressive conquerors who seized booty. The Genoese were traders from a maritime city-state. They set up trading entrepôts on the shores of the Black Sea, and did not go inland, did not attempt to conquer peoples and seize loot. A very different pattern of settlement.

    Now imagine another counterfactual scenario that would create a very different pattern of settlement: Muslim Arabs in Gaza and the “West Bank” exchanged for the Christian Arabs displaced from Iraq, Syria, and other majority-Muslim countries. This would give Christian Arabs a preserve where they would be protected, and where they in turn could (if they chose) help Israel militarily — as the Rev. Gabriel Nadaf is encouraging those who are in Israel to do.

    There is something in this also for those Arab leaders who do not want war with Israel. Those leaders actually have a stake in Israel keeping the “West Bank,” which makes it perceptibly more powerful: if you are al-Sisi, for example, you probably want Israel to hold onto the “West Bank.”

    This population exchange would enable the Israelis to do so. Nonetheless, the opposition of Arab leaders in the area to this plan, were anyone in a position of power to propose it, is virtually assured. Some Israelis, likewise, won’t like the idea of agreeing to let Arabs to live on “West Bank,” even if the Arabs in question are Christian and are traded for Muslim Arabs. There is considerable Christian Arab hostility toward Israel, and that will be hard to change. And there are some Israelis who think they can kick out all the Arabs from the West Bank.

    All this opposition makes for an impossible counterfactual — but would that it could actually come true, for the sake of all three groups involved: Israel, the Arab leaders who don’t want war with Israel, and above all, the Christian Arabs themselves.

    Shiloh Za-RaH

    You have been banned from this forum.
    Until 15/01/2016
    For the reason : allowing a banned member to use your account

    Aloha Tony,
    One of the rules on this forum is only one member per account... meaning said member is not allowed to open up multiple accounts on the forum.
    In addition, when someone else who was banned for spamming the same info. along with posting graphic images that further exploits innocent children across 5 other threads - resulting in members contacting me with complaints... then using your account and password to continue posting after being banned - that is pushing the situation too far.
    If you wish to resume posting and stop Raven from using your account you will need to change your password and not share it.
    Please let me know what you want to do.
    shiloh, Carol from "" -

    You have been banned from this forum.
    For the reason : allowing a banned member to use your account
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  8. admin

    admin Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Shiloh Za-RaH

    You have been banned from this forum.
    Until 15/01/2016
    For the reason : allowing a banned member to use your account

    Aloha Tony,
    One of the rules on this forum is only one member per account... meaning said member is not allowed to open up multiple accounts on the forum.
    In addition, when someone else who was banned for spamming the same info. along with posting graphic images that further exploits innocent children across 5 other threads - resulting in members contacting me with complaints... then using your account and password to continue posting after being banned - that is pushing the situation too far.
    If you wish to resume posting and stop Raven from using your account you will need to change your password and not share it.
    Please let me know what you want to do.
    shiloh, Carol from "" -

    You have been banned from this forum.
    For the reason : allowing a banned member to use your account

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
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