The Factuals versus the OABS (Old Age BullShit)

Raven


Raven

Posts: 517
Join date: 2010-04-10
Age: 48
Location: The Emerald City

• Post n°105

Re: The Holy Quran Experiment

Raven Today at 2:17 am
SophiasChoice wrote:




With Love
Eelco

THE GREAT FALLING AWAY

​

[7:22:21 PM] ShilohaPlace: I replied because she blamed my reply, calling her out on her nabs of course
[7:22:34 PM] ShilohaPlace: 'hurt human feelings' again
[7:23:01 PM] Sirius 17: yes
[7:23:09 PM] Sirius 17: I can see that now
[7:23:09 PM] ShilohaPlace: Look at Carolina and Dawney
[7:23:18 PM] ShilohaPlace: hurt feelings' all over
[7:23:25 PM] ShilohaPlace: They can’t see that this is devilish
[7:24:13 PM] ShilohaPlace: same with Rok as an 'irrational skeptic' and Xeia as a rational 'skeptic'
[7:24:41 PM] ShilohaPlace: It’s all over the place regardless of what people 'believe' or what politics etc
[7:24:44 PM] Sirius 17: no they can't, many in the world cannot see it, why Islam is so so deceptive. A death cult hiding behind the meme 'A religion of Peace", how much more deceptive can you get.
[7:24:51 PM] ShilohaPlace: This is what made me an activist. I did not see it clear enough before, this factionless devilmind.
Yes but coded just as such, your wolf in sheep clothing or the devil seen as an angel. It is a very old archetype.
But it has deceived the rational atheist, skeptic ordinarily reasonable thinker. This is the new for me. There is no more balance anywhere; 'good people' are as deceived as 'bad' people see?
So then what purpose for 'alternative' science data and whatever information whatever?

[7:28:10 PM] Sirius 17: yes you could say both my aunts and cousins are atheist as well, although they may believe in some higher power, they are mostly anti-religion and don't really believe in a god
[7:28:36 PM] ShilohaPlace: Sure this is ok if they then don’t lose objectivity
[7:28:38 PM] Sirius 17: yet they will defend Islam against the Christians
[7:28:47 PM] ShilohaPlace: You find this rather weird no?
[7:28:58 PM] Sirius 17: my aunt keeps pointing out how bloody and horrible the Christians are in comparison - very
[7:29:05 PM] ShilohaPlace: Who gave them technology and comforts in their homes; wash machines computers and phones and cars; did Islam?
[7:29:23 PM] Sirius 17: lol, hardly
[7:29:37 PM] ShilohaPlace: Xtian civilization did. The unforgivable sin recall. They can ridicule father and son, but not the ghost. So as the ghost is themselves they will have a human ego war.
AND the females are worse off than males. Say Rok at least tries to be balanced, even though he can’t understand purposes.
[7:31:48 PM] Sirius 17: yes the women suffer this bodily and in a very much more physical way then the men
[7:31:51 PM] ShilohaPlace: The femmes are stuck in their self-righteousness Carolina and Dawney
[7:32:04 PM] ShilohaPlace: I mean mental here, not physical
[7:32:15 PM] Sirius 17: oh I see, yes
[7:32:30 PM] ShilohaPlace: Only femmes who use their malemindedness can get this. Like you but you are Logos biased and this is the sealing of the 144,000 aspects.
Logos bias is a safety wall. True Logos not fake jesuses and christs. See if the GOP had the real Jesus in mind, they would fight Islam. GOP is Republican Party yes?
[7:34:07 PM] Sirius 17: true and during 911 they were fighting it, yes
[7:34:22 PM] ShilohaPlace: Yes they have become deceived. I tried to point this out in the sanicle reply

[7:34:44 PM] Sirius 17: but it seems the whole country has amnesia now that we lost over 4000 people in the twin towers as well as over 6000 or so now in our troops
And of course we killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and insurgents. I think they took the wrong measures in going in to Iraq
They should have just become very wary of infiltration and education on the Islamic view and not let the multi-cultural 'moderation' BS get in here at all
It really doesn't belong in a free society this BS death worshiping cult and the west was not founded on Islamic principles, it was founded on Christianity and the principles of freedom, but of course the country has forgotten its roots
But you might not be able to tell that in another 10 years if Islam gets their way
[7:39:57 PM] ShilohaPlace: Yes this is the danger. Islam has already infiltrated the MS media as you can see daily and Media means vox populi
[7:40:38 PM] Sirius 17: It should be clear to any logical thinker by now as IS moves through the Middle East destroying thousands of years of monuments and history beneath dynamite and sledge hammers where they intend to go with changing history.
[7:40:45 PM] ShilohaPlace: A brainwashed populous and beheading innocent Christian kids and throwing gays of towers stoning women; where are the feminists?
Women rights only apply to naked bums and boobs on western screens, not to cruelty and abuse of unnamables - oh those sexist comments by the male deviates exploiting the female body
[7:43:18 PM] Sirius 17: yes as disgusting and over the top those photos are, one should ask themselves why isn't this in the mass media? What a travesty to not show the truth in the media and instead make excuses for peoples sensitivities? If the west could see those pictures they might think OMG that could be one of my kids, or my neighbors ....because it is exactly that in of course Logos terms, those children are all of ours.
The truth might actually end the deception, but instead the fuc11ing media aids and abets the Islamic meme in the name of political correctness and religious freedom
[7:45:21 PM] ShilohaPlace: Yes and then you become the terrorist because you showed the pics and told the truth
[7:45:27 PM] Sirius 17: the religious freedom to behead men, women and children
[7:45:36 PM] ShilohaPlace: Thubans are not excluded
[7:45:45 PM] Sirius 17: this is what the media is supporting by not telling the truth
[7:45:51 PM] ShilohaPlace: Yes. Its criminal and in the future it will be known as such

[5:13:41 PM] ShilohaPlace: If you want to see real grace and beauty listen to this CHRISTIAN Girl 'forgiving' Islamic State.
Shove that down the throat of your 'mosque adoring' 'relatives.
You see no distinction between 'moderate Arab Christians' or 'radicalised Arab Christians' is at all required or necessary
[6:02:21 PM] ShilohaPlace: I finally got to his (http://www.raymondibrahim.com/ ) site. It seems getting harder to go there
[6:03:49 PM] Sirius 17: yes and fb seems to be deleting this kind of stuff
[6:04:21 PM] ShilohaPlace: Yes dont expose the Islamic practices of being peaceful

​

Can your islam loving relatives forgive this? Alluah Akbar, praise be to Muhammad and Allah to destroy the kuffar and the unbelievers! Islam is the religion of peace and love and multicultural integration.
​

Warning: Graphic Images of Murdered Christian Girl in Libya
By Raymond Ibrahim on December 28, 2014 in From The Arab World, Muslim Persecution of Christians







Katrine (center) with her sisters
Photos of Katherine — or Katrine — the young Christian girl recently murdered with her parents in Libya were recently published by Al Wafd. They are as graphic as they are necessary to document the virulent hate that animates the persecution of Christians in Muslim lands. According to forensics, the girl was shot at close range three times: twice in the head (one bullet remained lodged the other came out) and once in the back, coming out from her chest.


​

[7:48:31 PM] Sirius 17:

2 Thessalonians 2 - King James Version (KJV)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

<<< 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[7:50:07 PM] Sirius 17: this is now, where black is white and vice versa
[7:50:32 PM] ShilohaPlace: Exactly the Great Falling Away and also in the Cannon Nosey books
[7:51:28 PM] ShilohaPlace: So it is an old old archetype, but it is coming out NOW indeed

[7:51:45 PM] Sirius 17:


Isaiah 5:20 - King James Version (KJV)

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

[7:52:08 PM] ShilohaPlace: See this is what I meant; it is all written in the codes and so must 'come to pass'
[7:52:32 PM] Sirius 17: yes I wanted to quote those specific passages, because it is written and yes, it is all coming true right now

Carolina
14 hrs ·

I hope everyone SHARES this story, so all those on the Right who read only ugly, bigoted BS about Muslims sees that there are indeed more GOOD Muslims then radicalized ones - just as there are more GOOD Christians then radicalized ones.
PLEASE, everyone. Can we calm the rhetoric down?
While Trump Spews Hate, These Muslims Just Raised $100,000 for San Bernardino Victims
http://usuncut.com/politics/while-trump-spewed-hate-this-muslim-group-raised-100000-for-san-bernardino-victims/
A perfect response to Islamophobia.
usuncut.com

10 people like this.
1 share
Comments
Franny: seems that they have money...

[8:47:58 PM] Sirius 17: my aunt shared this silly story
[8:48:33 PM] Sirius 17: of course Franny speaks the truth, I should comment, and say "yes Franny, lots of Saudi oil money"
[9:07:55 PM] Sirius 17: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR4FRqJeKVA nice BS from NBC

​

[9:08:08 PM] Sirius 17: see how they took his words completely out of context; Trump didn't say he would ban all Muslims forever
[9:08:42 PM] ShilohaPlace: Yes add this to your post
[9:08:44 PM] Sirius 17: this is a huge smear campaign if I ever saw one; comparing his statements to the Japanese internment camps, what horseshit; the implicit media at its finest twisting the truth

With the TRUE LOVE of the Universal Truth, not human opinions!​

 

shiloh


shiloh
Posts: 1026
Join date: 2011-03-16
Age: 58
Location: Akbar Ra

• Post n°111

Re: The Holy Quran Experiment

shiloh Today at 4:57 am

Pris wrote:

SophiasChoice wrote:



With Love
Eelco

This is lovely, thank you, Eelco.

Some people here really do have ugly minds.​

Ugly Minds Indeed - and its not that of the Victims!


“Palestinian” Muslim girl: “Stab! Stab! Stab! Stab! Stab!…Knock on heaven’s door with the head of a Jew”

December 9, 2015 1:16 pm By Robert Spencer 27 Comments



Awww, what a sweet little girl. Remember: opposing this and calling it savagery is “racist,” “Islamophobic” and “anti-Muslim.”

​

“Little girl demonstrates art of stabbing: ‘Stab! Stab! Stab! Stab! Stab!,'” by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik, Palestinian Media Watch, December 9, 2015:


Palestinian Media Watch documents the Palestinian Authority and Fatah leadership’s messages to its population, showing both the PA ideology as well as how it directs the population to act. The current Palestinian terror wave is an excellent example of how the Palestinian population has responded to the leadership’s message. Mahmoud Abbas and other PA leaders sparked the current terror and violence by frequently reiterating the PA libel that Israel is planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and they called on Palestinians to “defend it,” “bless[ed] every drop of blood spilled” for it, “congratulated” the murderers and much more. Responding to the call, and following the praise and support from PA and Fatah leaders, among them Abbas, who referred to stabbings as “peaceful popular uprising,” Palestinians are – independent of the leadership – inciting to murder on social media, including encouraging people to slit the throats of Jews, and committing murder themselves.

The following are examples of social media murder promotion by Palestinians on Facebook.

One video (see above) shows a little girl glorifying stabbing. She is asked:

Man: “What do you tell [Palestinian] youth in the West Bank?”
Girl demonstrates with a long knife: “Stab! Stab! Stab! Stab! Stab!”
[Facebook page of the Jerusalem Intifada’s Young People Coalition,
Nov. 12, 2015]​

A staged video shows two “Jews” harassing Palestinian children who are playing in the street. In revenge, a young Palestinian ambushes them, stabs one and slits the throat of the other, killing them both.



Text posted with this video:
“#Stab
And do not fear, Al-Aqsa awaits you”

[Facebook page of Jabal Al-Mukebar, Oct. 6, 2015]
Click to view

An image posted to Facebook also vividly illustrates the call to cut the throats of Jews. It shows a Palestinian with a knife in his hand standing over a Jew wearing a kippah (Jewish skullcap), holding him down, about to stab him in the neck.


Text under photo: “#Stab_them_in_the_neck”
[Facebook page of Yusuf Shamasneh, Nov. 23, 2015]

Another video on Facebook also promotes stabbing of Jews and states that Israelis are “doomed to death.” The actor and singer who made and posted the video proclaims: “I stab a Zionist… I take revenge because I am a Palestinian Muslim.” In the video he “performs” a stabbing attack, killing a “Jew.” [Facebook page of Gazan comedian and actor Rafat Shurrab, Oct. 22, 2015]




The video incorporates a current and popular Fatah song that encourages violence and calls Palestinians to “the war of the streets”:

“I’m coming towards you, my enemy,
From every house, neighborhood and street
I’m coming towards you, my enemy,
From every house, neighborhood and street
I’m coming with my rifle and my faith
I’m coming towards you, my enemy
Our war is a war of the streets”

The video also incorporates the words of a Gazan preacher who recently encouraged people in the West Bank to “Stab!“:

“My brother on the West Bank:
Stab! Stab! Stab!
Stab! Do not hesitate.
You won’t find anything in our land but slaughter and stabbings.
And today a curfew is imposed!
Curfew! Curfew!”

Under the headline “Knock on Heaven’s door with the head of a Jew,” a Gazan singer posted a video that shows scenes from real stabbing attacks.



The singer encourages “the West Bank man” to: “Stab! Stab! … Cut, tear apart… Resist,” and continues:

“Make volcanoes of war erupt at the front line,
shower the humiliated Jews with fire
Let fear come down on them, and let death come for them in a flash
Children of Zion, tell of the swords that were openly plunged in you
Your necks and heads, your buses and soldiers have tasted the taste of a stabbing ambush!”

[Facebook page of Gazan singer Osama Issa Al-Nashar, Nov. 4, 2015]

Additional pictures of children brandishing knives and encouraging murder of Jews and Israelis are seen on many Palestinian Facebook pages, like this:




Text under photo:
“His mother put a keffiyeh on him
He went to get a knife
And said to me: ‘In order to stab’
Zionists, woe to you from the freedom generation”
#Stab, #So_what, #Hebron, #Our_land

[Facebook page of Moutasem Shawabkeh, Nov. 20, 2015]

See more examples of PMW’s documentation of PA and Fatah support for the current terror wave.…​

John Lennon: October 9th, 1940 - December 8th, 1980
Deborah Martina 104: January 8th, 1982 - December 8th, 2004



Imagine indeed, should there be no more ignorance about why things are as they are - in the mindsets of the sandpits of the humans!​

 

Pris







SophiasChoice

You know Shiloh...
You are absolutely right. Fact is that the same happens with Cristian boys and girls that are indoctrinated by extreme cristians.
Remember the KKK?

I think You are very short sighted. A slave to what you are fed by the main stream media and incapable of discerning stand alone incidents and stories from a group of loosely related people. (people who hold the koran as holy) Same as that not all people who hold the bible as holy ascribe the samel evel of value to that book.

You are giving in to your fears and now try to project them unto us as well.
Well sir.. No thank you.

Also I am now quite certain you have not sat with someone who holds the koran dear and listened.
If you had, you would have realized there was a person sitting across from you with the same hopes and dreams as you.
Who would love nothing more than a life of joy and abundance, just like you.
And who hold his ideas for truth... Just like all of us.
In a conversation those ideas may change. But only if we listen to each other.

Sure the koran says to chop of the hands of thieves. I even think that's in the bible too.
Did you know it also states that if someone steals from hunger. Its the people in office who should get their hand cut off instead of the thief?

There's always some good to be found, as well as a shitload of misinterpretation, misunderstanding and just plain mischief...

Anyway enjoy your day. brighten up a bit and meet some new people to talk to ok?
You just may learn something

With Love
Eelco

[9:32:53 PM] Sirius 17:

Pat Selden Religions, like any other ideology, are what you make them to be; they can be peaceful or they can be brutal. Just as no one human-being is the same as the other - there's no such thing as a "true" or "false" person - there's no such thing as one Islam, one Christianity, one Judaism, one capitalism, one socialism, just dozens and dozens of different ones.
I'm a Christian, of the Quaker persuasion: I follow a religion of peace. Many of my co-religionists are aggressive, arrogant, selfish bastards - hell, many of my fellow Quakers are - and some even kill in the name of Christ; many are saints in all but name; the rest of us live in the gaps in between.
Most of the Muslims I know follow a religion of peace; these murdering assholes clearly don't.
Islam and Christianity: religions of war or peace, depending on the believers, not the faith.
"There is only love or fear."
These scumbags chose fear: don't join them.
Choose love.


[9:33:13 PM] Sirius 17: yeah i got similar rantings on the fb post just now
[9:33:17 PM] ShilohaPlace: Same idiocy see?
[9:33:37 PM] Sirius 17: yes same excuses
[9:33:58 PM] ShilohaPlace: A worship of their own intelligence and discernment, unable to discern facts from false pretenses.
[9:34:03 PM] Sirius 17: let's not question the ideology at all, look past that and just think kumbayah
[9:34:06 PM] ShilohaPlace: As coded millennia ago. We are to listen to the islamists? Are they, have they and are the nabsers listening to what we said? The hypocrisy of 2000 years ago.
[9:35:30 PM] Sirius 17: yes
[9:36:06 PM] ShilohaPlace:

(39) Jesus said, "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

Proverbs 13:16 - King James Version (KJV)
¹⁶ Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.​

Petition to ban Donald Trump from the UK gets 100,000 signatures

December 9, 2015 2:40 pm By Robert Spencer 83 Comments

There is no freedom of speech in Britain anymore. There is just the big thundering herd getting led around by the political and media elites. Say something that is unpopular with those elites, and you’re liable to be banned from the country.

British Future director Sunder Katwala says: “The UK Home Office has set out clear guidelines which have led to the exclusion of preachers of hate from the UK if their presence here would not be conducive to the public good. Theresa May has excluded extreme Islamists on these grounds” — while letting in a huge number of jihad preachers, such as Mohammed al-Arefe, who has said: “Devotion to jihad for the sake of Allah, and the desire to shed blood, to smash skulls, and to sever limbs for the sake of Allah and in defense of His religion, is, undoubtedly, an honor for the believer. Allah said that if a man fights the infidels, the infidels will be unable to prepare to fight.” That was just fine with Theresa May.

Katwala goes on to say that the Home Office has “kept out those who have fanned extreme anti-Muslim prejudice, such as the bloggers Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. Trump’s statements are more extreme than theirs.” The Express goes on to characterize us as “extremists Geller and Spencer.” How did we fan “extreme anti-Muslim prejudice” and become “extremists”? The letter that the Home Office sent me said that I was banned for saying: “[Islam] is a religion and is a belief system that mandates warfare against unbelievers for the purpose for establishing a societal model that is absolutely incompatible with Western society because media and general government unwillingness to face the sources of Islamic terrorism these things remain largely unknown.” This is a garbled version of what I actually said, which is that Islam in its traditional formulations and core texts mandates warfare against and the subjugation of unbelievers.

This is tantamount to banning me for saying that the sky is blue and the grass is green. This is what gets you labeled a dangerous “extremist” in Britain these days: noting an obvious factual point that is reinforced by every day’s headlines. And now the same sinister authoritarians who are rapidly destroying Britain have set their sights on banning Trump as well. While I am no fan of Trump and could never support his candidacy, and see a certain poetic justice in the foes of free speech turning on a man who doesn’t understand the importance of defending free speech, this is still a grave injustice, and a sign of how close Britain is to falling into the abyss.



“‘Block Donald Trump from UK’ 100,000 sign petition as fury rages over Muslim ban call,” by Greg Heffer and Rebecca Perring, Express, December 9, 2015:
A staggering FOUR Britons a second have signed a petition calling for the billionaire to be blocked from entering the UK, after he vowed to ban all Muslims from America.
At 12.30pm more than 100,000 people had signed an online petition stating: “The signatories believe Donald J Trump should be banned from UK entry”.

Reaching the 100,000 threshold means it will have to be considered for debate in Parliament.
Radical candidate Trump has sparked international outrage after he pledged to bar access to the US for all Muslims if he were to win power.
The property tycoon is hoping to win the Republican nomination to run in next November’s presidential election.

The petition adds: “The UK has banned entry to many individuals for hate speech. The same principles should apply to everyone who wishes to enter the UK.
“If the United Kingdom is to continue applying the ‘unacceptable behaviour’ criteria to those who wish to enter its borders, it must be fairly applied to the rich as well as poor, and the weak as well as powerful.”

Just after 8.30am this morning, 45,000 people had signed the petition meaning more than doubled its support in less than four hours.
Trump, who is worth an estimated $4.5billion (£3bn), yesterday tried to justify his extremist policy by bizarrely claiming some parts of London are so “radicalised” police officers fear for their lives.

The 69-year-old said he was calling for an American ban on Muslims so the country is not left with no-go areas where police are “afraid for their own lives” from Islamist terrorists like in Paris and London.
Referring to the recent Islamic State (ISIS) attacks in the French capital, he said: “Look at what happened in Paris, the horrible carnage, and frankly, if you look at Paris, and I hate to do this because the Chamber of Commerce is going to go crazy, but Paris is no longer the same city it was.

“They have sections in Paris that are radicalised, where the police refuse to go there. They’re petrified. The police refuse to go in there.
“We have places in London and other places that are so radicalised that the police are afraid for their own lives. We have to be very smart and very vigilant.”
Mayor of London Boris Johnson hit back at Trump’s false portrayal of the capital, quipping the only reason he wouldn’t go to some parts of New York “is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”.

He added: “As a city where more than 300 languages are spoken, London has a proud history of tolerance and diversity and to suggest there are areas where police officers cannot go because of radicalisation is simply ridiculous.”

Prime Minister David Cameron also branded Trump’s far-right views “divisive, unhelpful and quite simply wrong” while Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn branded the American politician’s comments an “affront to humanity” and called for people to “unite against racism”.

The Metropolitan Police said they “would not normally dignify such comments with a response” but added Trump “could not be more wrong” with his description of ‘no-go areas’ in the capital.
He was also offered a briefing on “the reality of policing London”….

British Future director Sunder Katwala said in a statement on his organisation’s website: “It is hugely irresponsible for a prominent figure like Trump to fan the flames of prejudice in this way and raises questions over whether the UK should consider barring Trump from the UK on hate speech grounds.

“The proposals are ludicrous and unconstitutional, and will be rejected by America’s decent majority, among them many proud Muslim Americans. They are also a gift to ISIS propaganda, playing into the idea of a ‘clash of civilisations’.
He added: “It is important that the UK Government makes very clear that this extreme view is rejected and repudiated in the strongest possible terms.

“The UK Home Office has set out clear guidelines which have led to the exclusion of preachers of hate from the UK if their presence here would not be conducive to the public good.
“Theresa May has excluded extreme Islamists on these grounds, and also kept out those who have fanned extreme anti-Muslim prejudice, such as the bloggers Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. Trump’s statements are more extreme than theirs.

“Unless and until Trump were to retract these highly prejudiced comments, there is a good case for making clear that he would be refused entry to the UK by the Home Secretary.”
Extremists Geller and Spencer were banned from attending a far-right English Defence League march in 2013 because their presence would not have been “conducive to the public good”….

Some Muslims in U.S. irritated by Obama's call for them to root out "extremism"
Ohio pro-Islamic State Muslim who called for US soldiers to be beheaded in their homes is arrested

dumbledoresarmy says

December 9, 2015 at 4:36 pm
Since the subject of the thread is the UK, here is a very, very interesting piece, via the excellent Israeli blogger, “Israellycool”. A review of Tommy Robinson’s book (reviewer is a bloke named ‘Brian of London’ – an Israeli who was reared in the UK and knows the territory). Brian gives it a good chit.
But it makes for terrifying reading. Best bit, however, is an extensive quote from the book in which Tommy describes what happened when, after the British authorities managed to find a way of locking him up in jail, a Muslim dawa outfit gave him a Quran…and he read it. You see, he founded the EDL on the basis of common-sense observation of mohammedan bad behaviour, without knowing exactly where all the patterns of bad behaviour were coming from…but when he was sitting in his jail cell with a Koran, with lots of time to read and reflect, and put 2 and 2 together, it all clicked into place. It was like, “Oh shit, so THAT’S why they’re doing this…and this…and this…”.
http://www.israellycool.com/2015/12/05/tommy-robinson-says-hes-an-enemy-of-the-state-book-review/

I quote:
“Such as I had entertainment, it was getting on the nerves of the Muslim prisoners down the block with me. If there was one positive to take away from that experience, it was a better understanding of the type of people I was dealing with.
“I read the Koran during those 22 weeks in solitary and suddenly all of what I suppose people might call Islamic prejudices didn’t seem so prejudiced at all.
“Most of what I’d heard second and third hand was right there in black and white, absolute encouragement – no, a divine instruction – to act atrociously towards the rest of the world. Obey Allah or burn in hell forever. Page after page of it. Sex slaves, the lot. The thing is horrific.
“The Koran was sent to me by a Dawa group – Muslim missionaries who try to turn people to Islam.
“They probably thought they were having a laugh at my expense, but they ended up doing me a huge favour.

(ROFLMAO – talk about the Ummah scoring an ‘own goal’ and then some! giving Tommy Robinson a Quran to read so he could find out exactly what their Book of War had in it! – dda)
“I started writing down key facts, about their hateful attitude towards Jews and Christians, about sexual slavery. I couldn’t get my head round it. Here was the holy book the world’s Muslims want to rule the planet by – and if you ask my opinion, the thing should be banned for inciting racial and religious hatred on almost every page…”.
You’re in good company, Tommy Robinson. William Gladstone, a long-ago PM of the UK, held up the Koran in Parliament, called it “an accursed book” and stated that “so long as there is this book there will be no peace on the earth”.
Though from another POV, so long as there are mohammedans about on the planet, the Quran in accurate translations by non-Muslim scholars *should* be freely available – though with clearly posted warnings and non-Islamophile commentary attached – so that every Infidel knows *exactly* what the mohammedan agenda is. The Quran, Sira, Hadiths, Al-Tabari and co. *should* be on the bookshelves of every Infidel general…so that they can *anticipate* and outsmart mohammedan gang bosses in the battlefield and elsewhere. For example: once one knows about the way hudna works, all the delusive ‘peace processes’ around the world – India (with Pakistan, over Kashmir), Thailand, Philippines, Israel, etc – would be ditched by the Infidel side, as a total waste of time.

Michael Copeland says
December 9, 2015 at 6:51 pm
Several Met officers have said the ‘Islamification’ of some parts of the capital requires ‘extra vigilance’ and they can’t wear uniforms for safety reasons – despite Scotland Yard claiming the tycoon ‘couldn’t be more wrong’. (UK Daily Mail )

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/12/09/uk-police-say-donald-trump-is-right-about-no-go-zones-in-london/#comments

UK Police say “Donald Trump is right about NO-GO Zones in London”

“We can’t wear our uniforms in our own cars and some Muslim areas of London are so radicalized, they are virtual ‘NO-GO’ Zones,” say serving police officers today, who backed Donald Trump’s claim that some Muslim communities in the UK are no-go areas because of Muslim extremism.


This is in London
UK Daily Mail (h/t Susan K) Several Met officers have said the ‘Islamification’ of some parts of the capital requires ‘extra vigilance’ and they can’t wear uniforms for safety reasons – despite Scotland Yard claiming the tycoon ‘couldn’t be more wrong’.

Home Secretary Theresa May tonight rejected Mr Trump’s claims, insisting: ‘The police in London are not afraid to go out and police the streets.’


Gov. Bobby Jindal was bashed for saying the same thing awhile ago
The US presidential contender caused worldwide consternation yesterday after a string of incendiary remarks about Muslims, including in Britain, and said: ‘We have places in London and other places that are so radicalised that police are afraid for their own lives.’

But one serving officer said today Trump had ‘pointed out something plainly obvious, something which I think we aren’t as a nation willing to own up to.’


Another policeman said that he and other colleagues fear being terror targets and spoke of the ‘dire warning’ from bosses not to wear a uniform ‘even in my own car’.

It came as more than 250,000 people – seven people every second – signed a petition demanding Mr Trump is banned from Britain for being a ‘hate preacher’ – an idea rejected by Chancellor George Osborne.

billybob says
December 9, 2015 at 9:30 pm
I am a bit shocked to see Geller and Spencer referred to as “Extremists”. Extreme in what way? Extremely knowledgeable and articulate? Extremely well versed in the subject of Islam? Even extremely presentable as public speakers? And Briton doesn’t want them to open a badly needed discussion in their country…
We desperately need courageous people like Geller and Spencer, who provide a valuable perspective on the the most topical issue of our times. So few people know what is in the Quran and what Islam is all about. Why aren’t the Quran and Hadiths discussed broadly in universities, exactly with the perspective provided by Geller and Spencer, in the best traditions of academia?
When I was young, the scourge of the day was Natziism and Communism. We had many books promoting these ideologies that concerned a lot of people, like Mein Kempf, Quotations from Mao Tse Tung, and many others. How did we as a society deal with our concerns? Some thought such books should be banned, while most realized that would make their insidious ideas even more alluring.
It was not by banning books, but rather, by discussing them openly in the broad light of day in universities that provided perspective. Proponents and critics were welcomed alike, and the fallacies in the core logic of these ideologies was clearly exposed in the process. This was an educational experience we grew up with, and that inoculated us against extreme ideologies. And by the way, we never lost any sleep worrying that the communists or natizis would feel insulted because we critiqued their ideologies.
Really, I shouldn’t be here on Spencer’s website talking about this. Spencer should be so booked up ahead by universities all over the West as a guest speaker that he wouldn’t have time to dabble in a website. What is wrong with this world the he isn’t? Is Islam somehow so sacred that it is exempt from healthy criticism? Of course, it exempts itself, but that doesn’t count with me. I feel I have a right to be well informed.
It seems there are people and leaders who equate criticism of Islam with hate. They want to put such discussion off limits. They are very short sighted. It seems to me if Islam was discussed from all angles as broadly and freely as communism or natziism or any other political ideology, it would be far healthier for society.
Recently, I remember so much talk of the fake religion Scientology. It was broadly discussed in forums all over the internet, to such a point where we aren’t really that interested in it anymore. Before that, they were so many other movements. Who remembers the Moonies, for example? In these cases, nobody blinked an eye at criticism of the core teachings of these groups. Nobody would accuse you of hate speech if you criticized Scientology, or even accuse you of being a racist bigot. Why should Islam be exempt?
It is my hope that one day we will no longer hear Geller and Spencer referred to as “Extremists”. Rather, they will simply be sought after lecturers and guest speakers who are appreciated for their knowledge and perspective.

• Mathew Solo says
  December 10, 2015 at 2:35 am
  Thank You billybob…A breath of fresh air.

PrayerWarrior says
December 9, 2015 at 9:53 pm
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/625545/Donald-Trump-Muslims-speech-British-police-ISIS-radicalisation-London
Rank and file policemen are saying Trump is right about ‘no go’ zones.’
"The anonymous officer wrote on the online forum Police.Community: “I’m not allowed to travel in half blues to work anymore IN MY OWN CAR as we’re ’All at risk of attack’ – yet as soon as someone points out the obvious it’s ‘divisive.'”
He added: “In this instance he (Trump) isn’t wrong. Our political leaders are best either ill-informed or simply being disingenuous."

Baucent says
December 10, 2015 at 1:58 am
As for the “no go zones”, Trump probably got confused. There are definately “unpoliced” zones in Paris, Brussels and Sweden. But Tower Hamlets in London isn’t far off becoming a “no go” area. They tried to declare it a Sharish Zone last year, so Mayor Boris (“the Turk”) Johnson is being a little coy. The most popular baby boys name last year in London was …Mohammed (in various spellings), so Islamisation is well on track.

• Adam says
  December 10, 2015 at 3:39 am
  There is an area in Tower Hamlet’s called “Shadwell”, it’s an utter pit. There are street signs written in Bengali…oh & English surprisingly.

December 10, 2015

Trump vindicated: London police do fear for their lives entering Muslim enclaves

By Carol Brown
Historically, dhimmitude has been second-class citizen status imposed on non-believers by Muslims. But now we are witnessing an unprecedented phenomenon whereby Westerners willingly embrace dhimmitude. Muslims don’t have to force it on them. Westerners willingly sign up.
Go figure.
There are countless examples of voluntary dhimmitude around the world. This blog is about places in the UK where policing has become dysfunctional, if it exists at all, as sharia law is allowed to take hold. The blog also touches upon the UK’s potential ban of Donald Trump.

Breitbart reports on the current state of policing in and around London, where one police officer stated: “When I was a teenage lad in urnley there were no go white areas. This IS the case still nationally… including London where you have to have extra vigilance in certain parts when you are working”. This same officer also said “Islamification has and is occurring. You have to have extra vigilance in certain parts when you are working.”
And he’s not the only one.

The Daily Mail reports that a policeman said that he and his colleagues are fearful they will be targets of terror attacks and that they’ve received “dire warning” from their superiors not to wear their uniforms, “even in their cars”.
But they are not the only two reporting on the collapse of police authority in certain regions of the country. The Daily Mail reports on another police officer who said “there are Muslim areas of Preston that, if we wish to patrol, we have to contact local Muslim community leaders to get their permission.”
Another police officer stated that if an officer “were attacked in one of these neighborhoods, it would be written off, noting “even if one of us did get killed or dragged off in a van, it would just be reported as a ‘one-off incident’ and no reason to change the ‘British style of policing.’”

Another officer who resigned this year said he resigned because he couldn’t take the climate anymore and confirmed what several officers spoke of regarding the directive not to wear their uniform while on duty for fear of being attacked. The order came from Scotland Yard and has been rationalized not as a policy founded on fear but as one based on risk reduction or “damage limitation.”
When the police must hide their identity (or when those in command think they should), something has gone dreadfully wrong.
Still more officers have spoken out and shared their stories. One said their vehicles are attacked, with break lines cut along with other damage while another officer summed up the situation as follows: “I am reluctant to name the communities in question but there are communities from other cultures who would prefer to police themselves. There are cities in the Midlands where the police never go because they are never called. They never hear of any trouble because the community deals with that on its own. They just have their own form of community justice.”

And on it goes.
Most recently, this madness has expressed itself in a petition to ban Donald Trump from the UK for his comment that there are areas of London that are “so radicalized, the police are afraid for their lives.” The Daily Mail reports:

No matter that the statement appears to be true, the momentum is building in the UK to ban Trump as Brits stand tall against “hate speech.”
Seven people every second are signing a government petition to ban Donald Trump from Britain for “hate speech” after the tycoon's claims that police in London “fear for their lives” because some communities are so radicalised.
David Cameron, Jeremy Corbyn, Nicola Sturgeon, Boris Johnson and even Scotland Yard issued strongly-worded condemnation of the outspoken businessman after he claimed: “We have places in London and other places that are so radicalised that police are afraid for their own lives.”
Mr Johnson, the Mayor of London said Mr Trump was speaking “utter nonsense” and openly mocked the American, adding: “The only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump.”

The Daily Mail also reports that most signatures are from London, Edinburgh, and Bristol, that the petition now has more than a quarter of a million signatures, and that it will be considered for debate in Parliament. Sharia law is taking hold across the UK as thousands upon thousands of colonizers from Islamic lands invade, and Parliament might debate whether or not Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the country. New world order priorities have taken hold.
In contrast, some police officers have come out in support of Trump’s comments, with one stating: “In this instance he [Trump] isn’t wrong. Our political leaders are best either ill-informed or simply being disingenuous. He’s pointed out something that is plainly obvious, something which I think we aren’t as a nation willing to own up to – do you think a US Police Department would ban officers from wearing their uniforms under jackets etc due to FEAR of their cops being killed by extremists?”

As for the Brits’ puffed out, self-righteous pride about banning “hate speech,” they are doing a bang up job targeting the wrong people. As imams across the country incite violence, the UK has banned people like Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer and Michael Savage. The once Great Britain can no longer discern friend from foe, defenders of freedom from those who wish to destroy their nation.
The truth has become unrecognizable to the ever-growing volunteer dhimmi class, who “stand tall” against their own survival.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog...s_entering_muslim_enclaves.html#ixzz3tuzCtghj
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

​

 

shiloh


shiloh

Posts: 1031
Join date: 2011-03-16
Age: 58
Location: Akbar Ra

• Post n°116

Re: The Holy Quran Experiment

shiloh Today at 5:46 pm
SophiasChoice wrote:

shiloh wrote:
[9:32:53 PM] Sirius 17:
Pat Selden Religions, like any other ideology, are what you make them to be; they can be peaceful or they can be brutal. Just as no one human-being is the same as the other - there's no such thing as a "true" or "false" person - there's no such thing as one Islam, one Christianity, one Judaism, one capitalism, one socialism, just dozens and dozens of different ones.
I'm a Christian, of the Quaker persuasion: I follow a religion of peace. Many of my co-religionists are aggressive, arrogant, selfish bastards - hell, many of my fellow Quakers are - and some even kill in the name of Christ; many are saints in all but name; the rest of us live in the gaps in between.
Most of the Muslims I know follow a religion of peace; these murdering assholes clearly don't.
Islam and Christianity: religions of war or peace, depending on the believers, not the faith.
"There is only love or fear."
These scumbags chose fear: don't join them.
Choose love.

So I am confused by the lay out of your posts..
I wanted to respond as if the above quote is you...
But reading it again It reads as if this is a cut 'n paste quote by Sirius17

If it is you I must retract my previous assumptions about you, but also raise the question on why you style your posts as if they read that all muslims are evil..

Anyway. Have a nice day.
With Love
Eelco

Perhaps you would be less 'confused', should you 'dare' to watch some 'straight forward' presentations and accounts nothing to do with Sirius 17 nor me.

Have a 'Critical Thinking' day!




!Muhammad! Check-Mate !Allah!

​

SophiasChoice


SophiasChoice

Posts: 39
Join date: 2015-05-02

• Post n°117

Re: The Holy Quran Experiment

SophiasChoice Today at 5:51 pm

I think i'll pass thanks, For about the same reasons I don't watch christian, political or commercial propaganda..

I'll talk to some muslim mates. Most have a pretty straight forward answer as to how the koran is used against the people, pretty much like most christians I talk to have a pretty good idea on how the bible is used against them...

The fact they choose to believe in an entity bigger than themselves with some sort of holy power.. Ah well, been there myself so how can I judge them for that.

With Love
Eelco

 

shiloh


shiloh

Posts: 1039
Join date: 2011-03-16
Age: 58
Location: Akbar Ra

• Post n°136

Re: The Holy Quran Experiment

shiloh Today at 6:39 pm
Brook wrote:



Heaps of it..
Love that is..
I'm not bitter. I don't condemn you and I hope even trust that without added emoticons you don't seriously believe i thought for a second you see yourself as a messiah..

I'm just having a blast questioning and tickling.. adhering to the OP and stepping into the church of Mr Tickle.
If you read my contributions I am trying to state that I don't feel any better, superior or even different than any of you.

I just draw some lines where it comes to unfounded, mass insults on individuals when they are named by their religion, sexes, age group, cultural background and what not's.

With Love
Eelco

Indeed...Heaps of it.... that is!

Drawing that line in the sand with this guy is something he thrives on just so you know.

Get the popcorn Eelco this weekend should prove quite interesting ...







~


Cognitively; Framing semantics....ie; memology?

Sorry, "memology" is not a word. It is an attempt at marketing - and one of those nasty ones that pollutes the language.

Woo woo...Skip the light fandango!







~

“I don’t understand you,” said Alice. “It’s dreadfully confusing!”
“That’s the effect of living backwards,” the Queen said kindly:
“it always makes one a little giddy at first—”
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great astonishment. “I
never heard of such a thing!”
“–but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s memory
works both ways.”
“I’m sure mine only works one way,” Alice remarked. “I can’t
remember things before they happen.”
“It’s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,” the
Queen remarked.

~ Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar Has given you the call ~




All right,’ said the Cat; and this time it vanished quite slowly,
beginning with the end of the
tail, and ending with the grin, which remained
some time after the rest of it had gone.

‘Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin,’
thought Alice, ’but a grin without a cat! It’s the
most curious thing I ever saw in my life!’




​

“It’s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,” the Queen of Memology remarked.​

The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex​

​

Have you ever wondered why so many Muslim men are dedicated to killing Americans? Or why so many are willing to blow themselves up to kill Israelis? Or why they are so committed to blowing up random people in Bali, London, Madrid, etc.?

Orthodox Muslims are doing this all over the world, attacking westerners and their own fellow Muslims alike. Why?

Because of memes. A meme is anything that can be copied from one mind to another. The custom of shaking hands, for example, is a meme. A melody is a meme. A recipe for lemonade is a meme. Even the word "meme" is a meme, which has just made a copy of itself in your mind.

One of the characteristics of memes is they can evolve because some memes are better at making copies of themselves than other memes. They get more copies of themselves into other minds.

So memes compete with each other and evolve. Part of the way they become better at making copies is to join together with other memes in a mutually-supporting group. A combination of memes (known as a "memeplex") is often able to get itself into more minds than single memes.

From a memetics standpoint, a religion is a memeplex — collection of memes. One of the memes might be, for example, "This is a holy book."

And the holy book itself is, of course, a collection of memes.

Let's look at how religious memeplexes evolve and compete. To begin with, let's assume we already have a religion established. It already has a holy book and millions of people already have a copy of the memeplex in their minds.

And then there is a slight variation.

The original memeplex had a "live and let live" attitude, and never tried to encourage its followers to get converts. But then someone comes up with the idea that if you can persuade a non-believer to become a believer, you earn some sort of spiritual merit. You are saving souls, and your chances of getting into heaven are better.

Okay, now you have two variations on the same memeplex: One says "live and let live." The other motivates people to spread the memeplex to others.

After a thousand years, which of the two variations will have more copies in the minds of people? I'm betting on the motivated-to-spread-it version.

Let's assume the motivated memeplex is more successful. Does that mean it makes people happier? Or more successful in life? Or have healthier children? No. Just because a memeplex is successful doesn't mean it benefits any of the people holding the memeplex.

The same is true in genetics. Contrary to common sense, a successful gene doesn't necessarily benefit the organism. It is "successful" in the sense that it has made lots of copies of itself and is found in many organisms. But it may actually be harmful for the organism. For example, if there is a gene for alcoholism, and if drinking causes someone to have more children (or start having children younger) than someone who doesn't drink, over thousands of years, the alcoholism gene would be more successful than the non-alcoholism gene even though it is bad for each individual person carrying the gene.

In the same way, the success of a meme doesn't necessarily mean it's good for the person holding that meme.

If a memeplex says it is wrong to use contraception and wrong to masturbate, that memeplex would get itself copied into more minds than an identical memeplex without these two added memes (assuming offspring would be taught the memeplex too).

So the hapless believer, trying to follow the rules and be a good person by avoiding the evils of contraception and masturbation, would have more children than he might want or could afford, causing him to work overtime to support them — working two jobs if he must. It sends him to an early grave, but puts more copies of that memeplex into the minds of future generations than someone without those two memes.

So the memeplex has used the man for its own purposes, or at least that's one legitimate way to look at it. And it's a way that sheds new light on Islamic terrorism, which is why I've spent so much time explaining this idea.

The three elements that make for a successful meme are fecundity, fidelity, and longevity. In other words, if a meme makes lots of copies of itself, copies itself accurately, and lasts long enough to make copies into other minds, it is a successful meme. All else being equal, the meme that makes more copies, or copies with more fidelity, or lasts longer in the mind, will always out-compete a meme that does any of these less effectively.

Now, with that understanding, here's my point: If you were going to deliberately design a combination of memes with the purpose of making a memeplex that could eventually dominate the world — one that would eventually out-compete every other memeplex — you would be hard-pressed to do better than Islam.

Let's look at some of the individual memes within the Islamic memeplex:

1. A standardized version of the memeplex is written down, which makes for perfect replication fidelity. This is something basic to several religions and isn't an Islamic invention, but it is an important factor in the success of Islam.

Something only transmitted orally can change over time, but something written will be identical a thousand years from now, and with modern printing presses, can be reproduced in the millions, giving it enormous fecundity and fidelity.

2. The Koran includes instructions for its own spread. It tells believers they must spread Islam. It is their holy duty to bring Mohammad's warnings and Islamic law to every corner of the world.

3. The memeplex includes instructions for its own preservation, protection, and replication fidelity. The Koran, the most important of the Islamic holy books, directly tells its followers that they can never change or modify or "modernize" any of the teachings within the memeplex. It is a capital sin to try to do so. The memeplex ensures its own preservation this way.

These first three memes are pretty standard for several successful religions. But now it gets interesting...

4. Islam commands its followers to create a government that supports it. This may be one of the most brilliant innovations in Islam. Islam is the only religion that uses it. Other groups of religious people have had political aspirations, but no other major religious group orders its followers — as a religious duty — to create a government that follows its own system of law.

Islam has a system of law, called Shari'a, and all Muslims are obligated to continually work toward making their government — wherever they are — follow it. Because of some of the other memes added to Islam, you will see that this political addition to the memeplex has significant consequences. I think this is Islam's most brilliant innovation, and also the most terrifying to non-Muslims.

5. Permission to spread the memeplex by war. This is another brilliant innovation. Although some other religions have spread themselves using force, they had very little justification from their own religious doctrines.

Not so with Islam. Expanding by conquest is very much accepted and encouraged by the memeplex. The poor non-Muslims not living in an Islamic state need to be saved from the sin of following laws other than Allah's. If they won't voluntarily change their laws to Shari'a, then it is the duty of Muslim warriors to insist. The world cannot be at peace until every government on earth follows the laws of Allah.

Mohammad's own experience showed the example — an example, says the Koran, that every Muslim should follow. For ten years Mohammad tried to spread Islam by peaceful means. After ten years he had a paltry 150 converts. But he changed tactics and started using warfare, slaughter, executions, and assassination, and in a relatively short time, he converted tens of thousands, and after his followers died, they used the same tactics and converted millions.

The use of warfare combines powerfully with the instruction to create an Islamic state. So Islam spread quickly as their armies got bigger. They conquered and set up Islamic states, most of which have lasted to this day, and as you'll see, the laws within an Islamic state make it very advantageous to convert to Islam.

This is one of the most effective methods ever invented for getting a memeplex into huge numbers of minds. It's a method of control and indoctrination similar to those used successfully in communist and totalitarian states. But as you discover below, Islam makes unique use of the power of the law to enforce complete conversion to the memeplex.

6. Lands must be conquered. Lands that Islam has lost must be reconquered, like Spain and Israel, for example. The Islamic empire must continually expand. Contraction is bad, expansion is good. So if a land was once Islamic and now it is not, that is contraction, and must be remedied.

According to this meme, the earth is Allah's. If there are parts of the earth not following Islamic law, it is the duty of the faithful to gain control of that land and establish Shari'a. It is a sin to let it be.

7. The memeplex provides for new soldiers by allowing polygamy. A Muslim man can marry up to four wives, and he can have sex with as many slave girls as he wishes.

The Koran especially encourages men to marry widows. This is an important meme to add if you are going to be losing a lot of soldiers in war. You need some way of replenishing your army. You don't want the memeplex to die out from a lack of offspring.

8. It is a punishable offense to criticize Islam. You can see why this one is a good supporting meme for the memeplex. It helps curb any memes that would reduce the authority of Islamic memes. This one, like many of the others, is good for the memeplex, but bad for people. This one limits freedom of speech.

9. You can't leave Islam once you're in. This is an interesting one. It is actually illegal in Islamic states to convert out of Islam. This is a critical part of Shari'a law. Someone who has rejected Islam who was once a Muslim is an "apostate." This is a crime and a sin, and the punishment for it is death (and eternal damnation in hell thereafter).

Obviously, you can see why this meme has been included in the memeplex, but this one has actually caused Islam a problem because those who are following Islam to the letter consider more "moderate" Muslims (those who want to ignore or alter the more violent passages of the Koran) to be apostates. Since the punishment for apostates is death, fundamentalist Muslims are fighting modernizing Muslims all over the world, and keeping many rebellious, modernizing Muslims from speaking up for fear of death.

Every time a group of Muslims decides that maybe Islam should be updated for the 21st century and maybe women should have some rights or maybe the government should be more democratic, the devout Muslims call them apostates and try to kill them.

The memeplex is protecting its own fidelity (the original memeplex cannot be altered). This is not good for the organisms (the Muslim human beings), but it's great for the memeplex.

Another meme in Shari'a law says it's against the law for anyone to try to convert a Muslim to another religion. Again, this is a meme to help protect the fidelity of the memeplex.

10. Islam must be your first allegiance. This is a great meme to add if the goal is world domination. You are a Muslim first, before any allegiance you give to your family, your tribe, or your country.

This does two things: It causes a unity of people across borders, and it allows the group to grow bigger than any other entity. In other words, the "Nation of Islam" can grow bigger than any country, no matter how large (which gives the group a massive numerical advantage).

11. The only guarantee of a man getting into heaven is if he dies fighting for Islam. This is a great meme for creating fearless, enthusiastic warriors, especially given the vivid description of the sensuous delights of heaven.

A Muslim man has a chance of getting to heaven if he is a good Muslim, but it is not guaranteed. However, if he dies while fighting for Islam, he is guaranteed to get in, and that's the only thing he can do to guarantee it.

12. You must read the Koran in Arabic. This unites believers by language, and language is a very powerful unifying phenomenon. For added incentive to learn Arabic, another meme says you can't go to heaven unless you pray in Arabic.

So all Muslims all over the world share a language. This makes it easier to coordinate far-reaching campaigns of protest, political pressure, and war. I doubt if Mohammad foresaw this possibility, but this meme is brilliant, even if it was an accident.

13. You must pray five times a day. This is one of the five "pillars" — that is, one of the five central practices of a Muslim. Within an Islamic state, it is enforced by law. Every Muslim must pray five times a day. The practice helps the memeplex dominate a Muslim's life, infusing his daily rhythm with Islam.

It would be impossible to forget anything you deliberately do so often. Five times a day, every day, a Muslim must bow down and pray to Allah.

Research has shown the more effort a person expends for a cause, the more he believes in it. So this is a good way to eventually make believers out of people who became Muslims through coercion.
Islam completely takes over every aspect of Muslims' lives. Not only are they required to pray five times a day, they have to go through a washing ritual beforehand. Islam dictates the laws, and the laws cover many public and private behaviors. In an Islamic state, it is impossible to be a casual Muslim.

14. The prayers involve moving together in time. When Muslims pray, they all face the same direction, they bow down, get on their hands and knees, and put their face on the mat, all in unison, and then rise back up. Again and again.

When people move together in time, whether dancing or marching or praying, it creates a physical and emotional bond between them. That's why all military training involves close-order drill (marching in unison), even though it has been a long time since military groups have actually marched into combat. There is no longer a need for the skill, but all military training has retained this method because it is so effective at creating a strong feeling of unity between soldiers (read more about that).

The same is true of any physical movements people make in unison.

15. A woman is in a thoroughly subordinate position. This meme really helps support the war meme. If women had too much influence, they'd try to curb the fighting. Women in general don't like to send their husbands and sons off to war. But if women have no say, then the rest of the memes can express themselves without interference. By subordinating women, the memeplex prevents their effective vote against war, violence, and conquest.

The rules and laws (memes) within Islam that keep women subordinate are numerous. For example, she is not allowed to leave her house unless she is accompanied by a male relative. Under Islamic law, a woman is forbidden to be a head of state or a judge. She can only inherit half of what a man can inherit. In court, her testimony is only worth half of a man's. She is not allowed to choose where she will live or who she will marry. She is not allowed to marry a non-Muslim or divorce her husband. Her husband, however, can divorce her with a wave of his hand. And according to Shari'a, he can (and should) beat her if she disobeys him.

All of these rules keep her subordinate, which helps keep the war machine going unimpeded by domestic conflict.

16. The only way a woman can get into heaven for sure is if her husband is happy with her when she dies. When I read about this one, I thought, "Mohammad, you are a crafty one."

This meme obviously helps with the subjugation of women. It motivates her to subjugate herself. It gives her a strong motivation to subordinate her wishes to her husband's, because while she might have a chance to get into heaven if she's a good Muslim, the only way she can guarantee she will go to heaven (and avoid eternal suffering in hell) is to make sure her husband is happy with her when she dies.

17. Allah gives Himself permission to edit his own work. This is an interesting one. The Koran was written in sections (Mohammad's revelations) over a period of 23 years. The circumstances of Mohammad's life and his religion changed quite a bit over those 23 years. It says in the Koran that if a passage written later contradicts an earlier passage, then the later one is the better one.

One of the memes in the Koran is "this is the word of Allah." People had already memorized his earlier revelations, so Mohammad couldn't just change his revelations. It would look a little strange to go change anything that Allah already said.

But with this new meme — that later revelations abrogated or nullified any earlier revelations it contradicted — Allah's methods could change as Mohammad found more effective ideas.

In his first ten years of peacefully preaching, Mohammad only managed to win 150 followers. But as a military leader and violent conqueror, he was able to convert all of Arabia. The peaceful ways were too slow. Conversion by conquering and establishing Shari'a was much faster and more efficient. So later violent, intolerant verses abrogated (nullified) the earlier peaceful, tolerant passages.

18. The Koran uses the carrot and stick to reinforce behavior. Throughout the book are vivid descriptions of hell, where sinners and non-Muslims will have to drink boiling, stinking water, will be thrown face down into a raging fire, and will be there for eternity, suffering endless torments in agony.

There are also vivid descriptions of heaven. In heaven you'll wear green silk robes and recline on plush couches. Trees will shade you, fruit will dangle nearby. You'll have tasty food and refreshing drinks served in silver goblets. To have a chance of achieving this, you must be a devout Muslim. To guarantee it, you must die in jihad (for men) or make sure your husband is always happy with you (for women).

19. It provides a huge and inspiring goal. Leaders of countries or companies or religions have all discovered that you can get the most motivation and enthusiasm from your followers if you provide them with an expansive vision. An enormous goal. In the Islamic memeplex, the goal calls for a continuous effort to expand the domain of Islamic law until all the world has submitted to Islam.

Many religions have the goal of converting everyone, but Islam has a method available nobody else has: To expand by seizing and converting governments to Shari'a.

Once the whole world is Islamic, peace will reign. That's why even terrorists can say with complete sincerity, "Islam is a religion of peace."

The Koran says it is best if non-believers accept Islam and become Muslims without force. But if they refuse, then you must fight them and conquer them and save their poor souls by insisting they live by the laws of Allah.

Once all countries are conquered, the world will be at peace. Therefore, Islam is a religion of peace.

It is an enormous and inspiring goal, and a strongly unifying purpose. It creates motivated, enthusiastic followers.

20. Non-Muslims must pay a large tax. Once Muslims conquer a country and convert the government to Islamic law, any non-Muslims have the choice between becoming Muslim or becoming a dhimmi. Dhimmis are allowed to practice their non-Muslim religion if they pay the jizya (a tax). If they convert to Islam, they no longer have to pay a tax, so there is a practical incentive to convert.

But another aspect of this makes it a brilliant meme. The tax takes money away from the non-Muslims and their competing memeplexes and gives that money to support Islam. This is pure genius!

The income from these taxes (usually a 25% income tax) helped fund the Islamic conquests during the first two major jihads. They conquered vast lands, most of them already filled with Christians and Jews, many of whom did not convert at first, and their jizya poured huge sums of money into the Islamic war machine.

Eventually, the numbers of Christians and Jews dwindled down as they converted or escaped, until now, in most Islamic countries, Jews and Christians are very small minorities.

The tax-the-non-Muslims meme helps the Islamic memeplex make more copies of itself by suppressing competing religious memeplexes and financially supporting the Islamic memeplex.

Several memes within Shari'a law extend this effect. Non-Muslims are not allowed to build any new houses of worship. They're not even allowed to repair already-existing churches or synagogues. This puts the houses of worship of any competing memeplex in a state of permanent decline. Brilliant.

Also, non-Islamic prayers cannot be spoken within earshot of a Muslim — again, preventing Muslims from being infected by a competing memeplex. No public displays of any symbols of another faith may be shown either.

All of this prevents the spread of any competing memeplex, and makes competing religions die out over time. That's why today there are so many "Muslim countries." Almost every other country in the world is made up of many different religions.

One added meme makes it that much easier for Muslims to dominate non-Muslims within an Islamic state: Non-Muslims are not allowed to own weapons of any kind. To subjugate a people, all dictatorial rulers in the history of the world have done the same thing: Disarm the subjugated people. They are much easier to manage, less dangerous, and less capable of upending the status quo.

21. A Muslim is forbidden to make friends with an infidel. A Muslim is allowed to pretend to be a friend, but in his heart he must never actually be a friend to a non-Muslim. This is one of the best protections Islam has against Muslims leaving the faith.

In any other religion (except Islam) conversions to a new religion are made because a friend introduced it. This rule effectively prevents that. This meme effectively prevents competition from other memeplexes.

22. The Koran counsels the use of deceit when dealing with infidels. Mohammad instructed one of his followers to lie if he had to (in order to assassinate one of Mohammad's enemies). The principle was clear: If it helps Islam, it's okay to deceive non-Muslims.

This principle has served Islamic goals very well through history. And it serves those goals today. You can watch on the DVD, Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West, real-life examples of Islamic leaders saying one thing in English for the western press, and saying something entirely different to their own followers in Arabic a few days later.

Deceiving the enemy is always useful in war, and Islam is at war with the non-Islamic world until the whole world follows Shari'a law. All non-Muslims living in non-Islamic states are enemies. So deceiving westerners is acceptable. Even encouraged if it can forward the goals of the spread of Islam.

And so we have the strange phenomenon covered by Steven Emerson in Terrorists Among Us, where organizations in America were ostensibly raising money for orphans, but really giving the money to terrorists. They deceived good-hearted western infidels into giving money to organizations that were actively killing western infidels. As it says in the Koran, "War is deceit." This meme gives Islam a tremendous advantage over memeplexes that encourage indiscriminate truthfulness.

23. Islam must always be defended. This meme is a primary linchpin that gives justification for war with almost anybody, as you'll see in the meme below. After the enemy is defeated, of course, Muslims are required to establish an Islamic state.

24. The memeplex instructs on the use of pretext to start wars. The Koran devotes a lot of time complaining about people who did not support Mohammad when he first started his religion, with Allah often condemning them to torment in hell in the hereafter.

Mohammad was rather pushy and insistent with his religion, and when others felt intruded upon and protested, Mohammad took that to mean they were trying to stop Allah's holy prophet from bringing the revealed word of Allah to the world, so he was justified to fight them and destroy them as Allah's enemies. This is a demonstration of the principle of pretext.

Non-Muslims of the world need urgently to become aware of this principle. Of all the memes in the memeplex, this is the most dangerous to the West because it removes our natural self-preserving defenses. The use of pretext tends to make the West defenseless against the Islamic invasion now underway. Muslim terrorists are not naive people. They are smart, educated, well-funded, and being used by a very clever memeplex.

The invasion of the West is underway, and it is being done so cleverly, most westerners don't even know it is happening. (Read more about their 20-year plan to overthrow the government of the United States. Also, read about the Shariatization of Europe.)

Pretext means you need only the barest excuse to begin hostilities. It means you're actually looking for an excuse, and even trying to provoke others into striking the first blow — of "starting" the hostilities.

If the only way to get to heaven is dying while fighting for Islam, you need war. And if it is your holy duty to make all governments use Shari'a law, you need to conquer those governments. But you don't really want to look like the aggressor. Appearances count. All throughout the Koran, Mohammad tries to justify his aggression as defending Islam.

The Koran repeats over seventy times that followers of Islam should use Mohammad as a model and imitate him. So Muslims the world over try to find or create grievances, so they can get a holy war started, so they can fight and die in Allah's cause and help make the world ruled by Allah's laws.

And because of the rise of multiculturalism (respect for all other cultures) in the West, the use of pretext convinces people in the West who are unfamiliar with Islam. Many people think al Qaeda is angry at the West for having troops in Saudi Arabia. That's merely a pretext. They want all non-Muslims out of the Middle East. Then they say they will cease hostilities. It is a ridiculous and impossible goal, so they are justified in permanent war against the West.

And it's surprising that so many westerners are fooled by this one because it flies in the face of a fundamental western principle: Equality. What Osama bin Laden is saying is infidels are so undeserving, their very presence defiles their holy places. Wow. What does that say about the filthy infidel?

Why doesn't this kind of racism or prejudice or infidelphobia (or whatever you want to call it) outrage more westerners? Instead, many think we ought to pull out of the Middle East so these poor offended terrorists aren't so angry with us any more!

The principle of pretext is to provoke a hostile reaction and then use the hostile reaction as a reason to escalate hostilities. It's the same method schoolyard bullies have used for probably thousands of years: "What are you looking at? Hey, you bumped into me! Now you're going to pay! Nobody disrespects me!"

25. The explicit use of double standards. Islam has one standard for Muslims, and a different standard for non-Muslims, which always gives the advantage to Muslims and provides incentives to convert.

For example, Islam must be spread by its believers, wherever they are. But when other religions try to spread their own memeplex, Muslims are supposed to see it as an aggression against Islam — an act of aggression that must be "defended." Remember, Islam must always be defended.

Another example of how the double standard meme gives the memeplex an advantage: When Islam is defamed in any way, Muslims should violently defend it. Even in a cartoon. But Muslims can and should defame Jews and Christians in Muslim newspapers and television, and they should defame any infidel or enemy, as they defame the U.S. today.

Here's another example: The Islamic fundamentalists of Saudi Arabia are pouring money into building mosques all over the free world. But according to Shari'a law (Islamic law), which is the law in Saudi Arabia, no non-Muslim religious structures are allowed to be built. However, Muslims all over the world protest loudly and violently when anyone in Europe or America resists the building of more mosques in their countries.

They don't see the irony in it. They don't feel strange having such an obvious double standard. They are, after all, Allah's followers and everyone else is deluded. Fairness and equality with such unworthy infidels would seem very out of place. A double standard seems completely appropriate from that perspective.

The double standard principle is part of the memeplex, and it has been a great advantage to the spread of Islam (and the suppression of competing memeplexes).

26. It is forbidden to kill a Muslim (except for a just cause). It is not forbidden to kill an infidel. This causes a bond between Muslims, fear in non-Muslims, and motivation to become Muslim. This is also another example of an explicit Islamic double standard.

.......................................................​

We might admire the brilliance of the Islamic memeplex in an abstract, intellectual sort of way, but it is terrifyingly real. Millions of people try to follow these memes to the letter. And their belief in the memeplex is strongly supported by the side-effects of Shari'a law. By making the government and laws ruled by Islam, the memeplex applies two powerful principles of influence: social proof, and authority.

Everyone practices the religion in an Islamic state (or they are flogged, taxed, or killed) and no one can criticize it, not friend-to-friend, and not through any media. The psychological impact of this is enormous. Three generations later, it would be almost impossible for any Muslim living in that state to think outside of Islam. The authority and social proof would be overwhelming.

If you were trying to come up with a memeplex to take over the world, I don't know if you could do better than Islam.

Of course, just because I admire the genius of the memeplex doesn't mean I'm in favor of it. As a non-Muslim, I am wholeheartedly against it. Remember, the success of a meme has nothing to do with making people happy or healthy. Memetic success only means it propagates well.

The same is true for genes. A successful gene is one that gets the most copies of itself into future generations. The genes making up a deadly virus may kill millions of people and cause untold misery, but from a genetics point of view, the virus is genetically successful.

Genes don't care about people. They don't try to make us happy. They are cold and indifferent to our plight.

Same with memes. A memeplex will use up and spit out human lives in the service of its propagation, indifferent to the pain, misery, or death it causes.

A memeplex, well-drilled into someone's head and reinforced by the powerful authority and social proof of his whole society, can cause him to blow himself up just to kill others for the fulfillment of a fantasy goal of ultimately attaining world peace and the triumph of Allah (and a harem of 72 dark-eyed voluptuous beauties devoted to his every wish).

The Islamic memeplex is formidable. It is a force to be reckoned with and we ignore it at our peril. It has already consumed the minds of one and a half billion people, and it is the youngest of the major religions. And it is growing.

And yet, I don't think the situation is hopeless. Many Muslims now living in Islamic states are trapped and would defect from the memeplex if it were safe to do so.

And even those who like being Muslims can be released from the hold the memeplex has on their minds. Like suddenly "coming to" when you're being hypnotized, I think an understanding of memetics itself can help undermine the hypnotic effect of the religious beliefs.

And the first thing we in the multicultural and tolerant West need to be aware of is the formidable memeplex threatening to overtake us. The memeplex takes advantage of our tolerance and our freedom so as to ultimately eliminate it.

This is an ideological war, so the ideas in the heads of your fellow westerners makes all the difference. And you can help turn the tide. Find ways to introduce these ideas to your fellow westerners. Here are a few ideas to help you.

And we can help Muslims trapped in Islamic countries find their way to snapping out of their trance. Muslims have submitted to Islam, many of them because they felt they had no choice (or their parents or grandparents felt they had no choice). They are being used by the memeplex. Individual Muslims can free themselves from Islam, and many have, thanks to the web sites like FaithFreedom.org, and books like Leaving Islam.

I would suggest we not judge Muslims too harshly. Many of them are in some way rebelling against some of the memes, but out of custom, guilt, or because their Islamic government violently enforces the rules, they practice the rest of the religion.

"Muslims are the first victims of Islam," wrote E. Renan. "Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him."

Fortunately, Muslims the world over have rebelled against this rigid and restricting memeplex, and that's the only reason Islam has not already taken over the world: Good people, coerced for generations to be Muslims, have slowed its spread by ignoring (probably with some guilt) the worst parts of the Koran.

It would be nice if we didn't have such a memeplex to deal with. It would be nice if we could all just get along. But sometimes things like this just have to be faced and handled, regardless of what we might rather be doing.

If you are a non-Muslim and you want to get started helping to curb the spread of the Islamic memeplex and the terrorism it produces, the best thing you can do is learn more about Islam and then speak up to your fellow westerners.

You will be shocked at how little most people know about Islam. And they will be shocked to find out. And when enough westerners know about it, Islamic tactics like pretext and deceit will be seen for what they are, and will no longer make us defenseless. When we know more about the founder (the one all Muslims should imitate) and the goals of the memeplex, our collective actions can effectively thwart their plans. Our collective grasp of the real situation will bring more rational changes to our laws and policies (such as our current immigration policies).

The key is what happens in one-on-one conversations throughout the West.

When you hear people saying things like, "We should pull out of Iraq," or "We're just in it for the oil," or "Islam is a religion of peace," that is a time to speak up, calmly and simply. Tell them about the Islamic memeplex. Tell them what they don't know. Help them update their understanding of the situation. Do this wherever you go, and start now. The situation is urgent.

Many of the memes that help Islam spread are in your head and in the heads of your fellow westerners. That's the first place to start to fight against the viral spread of this clever memeplex.

The memes in your head (such as a blind faith in multiculturalism) are not the kind that will convert you into a Muslim, but they help the spread of Islam by taking down your defenses, and even encourages you to spread information that makes the West easier to defeat. You can play an important role in curbing the spread of the Islamic memeplex by speaking up within your own sphere of influence.

How? When you hear a meme, stop it from spreading. For example, "Actually, what they mean by 'Islam is a religion of peace' is that their mission is to make the whole world submit to the law of Allah (Shari'a), and once that is accomplished, there will be peace in the world. Therefore, Islam is a religion of peace. That's not really peace as we know it."

But to do this kind of inoculation, you have to have a pretty good handle on the memeplex itself. That will require some study.

I know you have other things to do, and you can't make this a full-time occupation, but I also know how serious this is, so it will require some sacrifice on your part.

I have created a curriculum of sorts. I tried to figure out what would be the material you could study that would give you the most critical knowledge with the smallest investment of time. Here is my curriculum:

Books to read:

Islam and Terrorism
The Sword of the Prophet

Audiobook to listen to in your car:

Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam

If you listen to this program six times over the next year, you will have a grasp of the whole scope of the most important parts of the Islamic memeplex. If you only do one of the things I recommend here, this is the one you should do.

DVDs to watch:

​

Islam: What The West Needs To Know
Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West

These DVDs are not only good for your own education, they are an excellent way to introduce the ideas to your fellow westerners. After you've watched them a couple of times, start loaning them out to friends. Keep them in circulation. Buy several copies if you need to.

You can stop the spread of the memes that make the West defenseless only by having a sufficient amount of knowledge.

When you hear someone imply that the United States brought the terrorists into existence with their bad foreign policy, how will you answer? One possible way to bring the whole thing into perspective is to give a brief history of jihad. During the last great jihad, Islamic forces conquered Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, and Serbia, and they were at the Gates of Vienna in Austria in 1683, when their forces were finally defeated.

In other words, they were violently attacking and defeating westerners (non-Muslims) before the United States had even been created.

This is not to say some of the United States foreign policies have left much to be desired. But the Islamic memeplex has a longer history and has merely used political mistakes as a pretext to engage in warfare, as they have since the beginning. If you don't know any of this, it would be easy to see things as the terrorists want you to see them, and in fact, many westerners have bought the pretexts hook, line, and sinker.

Study that material, and start right away. The Islamic memeplex is out to take away freedoms and human rights. After millions of people have fought against tyranny and died to gain the rights and freedoms we enjoy today, here comes a pernicious memepex to take them away. And the Islamic memeplex could realistically succeed with terrifying brilliance.

Take action today. With every new understanding you have, and with every new certainty and clarity you gain, you will feel more bold in speaking up, and speaking up is exactly what you must do to fight a war of memes.

I have also created a version of the above article edited for readers who know nothing about Islam so you can share the information with a broader audience. Check it out: What Makes Islam So Successful?
Also, the Koranic expert at Islam Exposed has provided chapter and verse for many of the memes above. Find them here: Amplification of Key Concepts from The Terrifying Brilliance of Islam.

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2007/10/terrifying-brilliance-of-islamic.html



_________________
Shiloh Za-RaH

I Am the Darkness of the Purple Dawn and the Light of the Moon Turquoise!

 

shiloh


shiloh

Posts: 1041
Join date: 2011-03-16
Age: 58
Location: Akbar Ra

• Post n°139

Re: The Holy Quran Experiment

shiloh Today at 8:50 pm
SophiasChoice wrote:

Shiloh,

Have you noticed that the video in the OP was about how people were confusing what was in the bible for what was in the koran?
The meaning if it wasn't clear before of that is that the bible and the koran can be explained in multiple ways...

I'd like to see you try and quote some positive koran stuff for a change. Just to see if you get an idea of what's really going on.
Also your writing style as in very long quoted posts without an easy way to see what's yours and what isn't makes me skip most of it.

Perhaps a rephrasing in your own words in smaller bits may keep me interested. It will if you include some original and honest concern instead of regurgitating what the media and sadly most people are spewing these days without any critical thought.

And no I won't watch a 60 minute video explaining your concerns better than you can.

With Love
Eelco

It is often said by apologists that Islam has been hijacked by the Islamic Terrorists; but it is the Islamic Terrorist who has been hijacked by Islam!​

'Positive Koran Stuff!' The self delusions arrive easily for the unbiased critics who refuse to look at independent evidence supplied by other sources.
You think actual defenders of YOUR rights to 'freedom of speech' and self expression like myself, will waste their times to repeat what has been presented countless times and actual data which YOU then refuse to consider?

Just above in the information you replied to, can be read:

17. Allah gives Himself permission to edit his own work. This is an interesting one. The Koran was written in sections (Mohammad's revelations) over a period of 23 years. The circumstances of Mohammad's life and his religion changed quite a bit over those 23 years. It says in the Koran that if a passage written later contradicts an earlier passage, then the later one is the better one.

One of the memes in the Koran is "this is the word of Allah." People had already memorized his earlier revelations, so Mohammad couldn't just change his revelations. It would look a little strange to go change anything that Allah already said.

But with this new meme — that later revelations abrogated or nullified any earlier revelations it contradicted — Allah's methods could change as Mohammad found more effective ideas.

In his first ten years of peacefully preaching, Mohammad only managed to win 150 followers. But as a military leader and violent conqueror, he was able to convert all of Arabia. The peaceful ways were too slow. Conversion by conquering and establishing Shari'a was much faster and more efficient. So later violent, intolerant verses abrogated (nullified) the earlier peaceful, tolerant passages.


Furthermore, should you read my recently written pdf; "The Ontological Metaphysics behind the Physical Manifesto of Islam - The Jihad of Islam and the Hadji of Logos"; you would find the following excerpt:


.......
The Old Roman Empire (Old Western Rome) had deteriorated and lost its political influence by 530 and the Arab conquerers of the Byzantine Empire realized the attempt and success of its Roman predecessor to unify their jurisdictions by a religious philosophy or clerical rule for political purposes.
So the 'times and life' of Muhammad ( 570-610- 632) can be associated with the political establishment of the Arab jurisprudence over their conquered territories, beginning in the historical records with the Rashidun Caliphs (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali - {Sunni lineage 632-661 with Shia lineage beginning with Ali 656-661}), followed by the Umayyad dynasties as successors after the supposed death of Muhammad in 632.
The Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (646-685-705) is said to have collected the Qur'an under editorial access by Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, the then governor, general and administrator of Iraq.

The actual historical manifestation of the Qur'an and the appearance of Muhammad in the records does not appear until the caliphate of Abd al-Malik and even the canonical Islamic records show no distribution of the Qur'an until the the appearance of that caliph, said to have 'collected' and edited the Qur'an during his time of Arab-Islamic rulership.

The name Muhammad and the present unfoldment of the Islamic ideology so begins to enter recorded history in this caliphate, the label of the Qur'an then becoming more prevalent in other non-Islamic Jewish and Christian accounts and records from the eighth century onwards.
A case so can be made, that the prophet Muhammad of the Qur'an and the construction and dissemination of the Qur'an is rather closely associated with the Umayyad caliphate of Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan.

The prophet Muhammad could also be a label for a title or office for an exemplary personage, military leader or administrator to render the character and conduct of this model to become enshrined as 'holy law' and as infallible behavior, which should be copied and repeated as idealization. Additionally, 'Muhammad' as a title could become identified as the Muslim name for an equivalent signum such as 'Krystos' or Christ from an earlier tradition and as found within the remnants of the conquered territories, say the religion of an exiled Byzantine gnostic sect.
The construction of 'Muhammad the servant and apostle or prophet of Allah' in the 8th Century in the Umayyad dynasty then could be an adaptation of Muhammad/Jesus, the Prophet of Allah as the Arabic translation for 'Jesus, the Prophet of Jehovah/Abba' from the earlier Christian tradition and without any then existing agenda for this conquest to become a self reenforcing validation of the political agenda as a veiled context of infallible and so coercive divinely inspired and transmitted lexicon of instructions named the 'Holy Qur'an'.

The success of the Arab invasion in a military sense, so formed a valueable platform for the caliphates to establish political order and jurisdiction in the 'New Arabia' in the establishment of an overarching 'new religion', which could replace the older priesthoods as remnants found in the conquered lands.

A distinction between Jehovah as the YHWH of Judaism and 'Abba the Father of Jesus in Heaven', (encoded as YHWHY and as a resymmetrisation of the Judaic Tetragrammaton into a Christian Pentagrammaton) must be made in the context of this article.
Many of the physical atrocities committed by Islamic State and much of its global domination agenda is also found in a certain ultra orthodox interpretation of the Torah and Talmudic codices sans the New Testament.

Robert Spencer's propositions as to the derivative of Islam as the youngest worldwide religion from older traditions based on Zoroastrianism, Judaism and Christianity so is fully supported in this essay, descriptive for the metaphysical or 'spiritual' ontology and purpose of Islam.
Once Islam had become the official clerical administration in the Arabian kingdom, the amalgamation of those parts of the older religions considered suitable by the muslim administrators became the backbone and core for the Qu'ran as the validation of Islam as being the final word of the creator.
As 'Muhammad' could be used as a title and the claim of Christianity to the 'Krystos' was well established in Byzantine Christendom; the Islamic clerical administration decided to absorb the 'Krystos' title as the 'Prophet or servant or apostle of God' in 'Muhammad'. In this manner could the claim for Muhammad being the final and last prophet be justified, rendering Jesus Muhammad's forerunner or predecessor and who then had prepared the way for the final prophet Muhammad, apostle of Allah.

This then became the absorption of the New Testament by Islam, centered on the title of Jesus the Christ and omitting the rest of the New Testament and including the basic tenets of it, such as the death and resurrection of Jesus in the process as an irrelevant and unsuitable hindrance to the core political motivations of the by now muslim Arab nation.
Orthodox Judaism rejected the New Testament as well and so to absorb Judaism, Islam was more sympathetic and akin to the Old Testament, the Torah and the Talmudic traditions. Islam so fully embraced the laws of Jehovah in terms of the 'conquering and administration' of the 'holy promised land' and those laws can be found in various details and derivatives in the Qur'an.

The Torah also contains poetic treatizes of harmony and peace and love, even aligned to somewhat obscured sexual references, such as the Song of Songs of Solomon and the Psalms of David and the Proverbs and also futuristic dispensstions in the Book of Isaiah, which contra more detailed actual historical accounts, such as the Books of Jeremiah and Daniel can easily be associated with any timeframe not particular to historical records in some chronological order.

It stands to reason then, that universal principles of poetry, art and cosmic harmony are also found in the Qu'ran as adaptations from the Torah and older traditions from Zoroastrianism, if not from the New Testament and the literature of the pre- and post Christians sects such as can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran (essenes) in Israel or Nag Hammadi (gnostics) in Egypt.

The western world in its blatant scientific materialism fails to understand that the motivation of Islamic State to act as it does is in no way a misrepresentation of islam as a religion of peace and love.
Those tenets are indeed found in the Qu'ran, but as a core copying effect from the Old Testament, such as its poetry and wisdom sayings found in many places.
So the visions of the 'Greater Israel' as say portrayed in Isaiah as the Utopian New World and not placed into a particular timeframe becomes simply mirrored in the 'Great Nation Islam', the caliphate of Islamic State.
The chronologies in the Torah, subject to historical analysis are all omitted in the Qur'an, such as Chronicles and Kings and time specific books like Jeremiah and Daniel.

The name of the god of Judaism is well known from Exodus.3.14 as the I Am That I Am and as the mystification in the kabbalistic tetragrammaton in YHWH.
The 'prophet Moses' as a conquering patriarch, eliminating any resisting populations encountered in the conquered lands so fits in rather well into the Islamic agenda to conquer the world as the 'holy land' of Islam. So 'Moses' and a name which has more pharaonic linguistic derivatives, than Hebrew ones in Thutmosis and Ahmose and Rameses can also be considered a title which can be muslimized in 'Muhammad'. In this way then Islam blends the 'physically conquering 'Moses' with the 'spiritual' conquering of the 'Krystos' in the one honorific of 'Muhammad'.
So if the god Jehovah of Judaism as found in the Torah is essentially the template god of Islam as Allah; then what is the difference?
.......


Those are my words exclusively; so if you are truly unbiased in your experiential islamophilic position; then you might perceive in those words not a label of islamophobia (remember that a phobia infers a UNWARRANTED fear of islam and us 'islamophobes' clearly and continually state that Islamic ideology represents a REAL and not an imaginary threat to the western civilization), but a rational and historical analysis of what this Islamic ideology or worldview represents.
Also you might notice that the label of the 'muslim following hisher religion' is never accused as anything else but as a VICTIM and prisoner of this ideology.

I also reshare the following for your discernment if you find the time to actually read it. It is from an Iranian muslim of a younger generation. Will you call him also an anti-Islamic islamophobe. He is certainly anti-islam, but only islamophilics will confuse this with being also anti-muslim.

An Open (Unedited) letter from an Iranian 'NonRadicalised' Muslim
A Perspective of a Younger Generation of Iranian Muslims

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2007/09/20-year-plan-to-overthrow-us-government.html​

SecularDemocraticIran 8:35 PM
As a person who lived more than 2/3 of my life in Islamis countries & communities, grew up under a Sharia school system & laws and hated Islam (along almost anyone I knew growing up) more than enything else in my life, I agree w/ that article 100%. This is the most realistic analysis of the situation I've ever seen.
I've been personally fighitng for Iranian secular democracy for most of my life and my main targets in this battle are normally the various kinds of Islamic (pro-IR) lobbyists. They come in all forms and much of the western media is hijacked by them w.o realizing. They have brainwahing & recruiting cells in almost any university in America. There are billions of $coming from MUSLIM nations and US charity organizations to fund their growing underground empire. They have become experts in $ laundering, drug, cigarett and conterband smuggling and there is more tax fraud by Muslims than any other because they consider paying taxes as feeding the infidel enemy of Islam while even the millionare Muslim kids receive social welfare, food stamps andgoverntment benefit. I can write a whole book about how much they abuse American liberty against America itself.
I am an Iranian and grew up in the Muslims world, also during my first years in America, my situation forced meto live in majotity Arab/Muslim communities which I really hated.
I warrned Americans about the threas of growing Muslim communities in America and the Americans laughed at me or ignored me calling me over reacted because I was suffered living under an Islamic dictatorship.
When 9/11th terrorist attack took place, once again I had to deal with idiots who thought anyone from the Middle East must be a Muslim and so a terrorist. Even when they heard me cursing Islam and let them know that I was an athiest from non-Muslim parents, the idiots didn't understand.
When I heard Bush engaged Iran in Iraq & Afghanistan, I warned anyone I knew that Iran was going to take over Iraq and turn it into a Juhadist capital and still Americans didn't believe me.

Even my predictions about Iran uprising turned to reality because the opposite what it seems, over 70% of Iranians under the age of 40 are non-Muslims meaning that they were born of Muslim parents, but hate Islam more than anything else in their lives & never worship it. The young Iranians fighting the barbaric regime in Iran are the future allies US & Israel need in the middle east and the west should capitilize and invest in them because they'll change the future of middle east and the world.
When Obama prases Islam and pays respect to the occupying regime of Islamic Republic, Iranian people feel betrayal from the free world that instead of hearing their cries, our fanatic president praises their barbaric oppressors. They even chanted "Obama, Either w/us or w/them(regime)"


SecularDemocraticIran 8:43 PM

I am an Iranian and grew up in the Muslims world, also during my first years in America, my situation forced meto live in majotity Arab/Muslim communities which I really hated.
I warrned Americans about the threas of growing Muslim communities in America and the Americans laughed at me or ignored me calling me over reacted because I was suffered living under an Islamic dictatorship.
When 9/11th terrorist attack took place, once again I had to deal with idiots who thought anyone from the Middle East must be a Muslim and so a terrorist. Even when they heard me cursing Islam and let them know that I was an athiest from parents who also hate religion, the idiots didn't understand.
When I heard Bush engaged Iran in Iraq & Afghanistan, I warned anyone I knew that Iran was going to take over Iraq and turn it into a Juhadist capital and still Americans didn't believe me.

Even my predictions about Iran uprising turned to reality because the opposite what it seems, over 70% of Iranians under the age of 40 are non-Muslims meaning that they were born of Muslim parents, but hate Islam more than anything else in their lives & never worship it. The young Iranians fighting the barbaric regime in Iran are the future allies US & Israel need in the middle east and the west should capitilize and invest in them because they'll change the future of middle east and the world.
When Obama prases Islam and pays respect to the occupying regime of Islamic Republic, Iranian people feel betrayal from the free world that instead of hearing their cries, our fanatic president praises their barbaric oppressors. They even chanted "Obama, Either w/us or w/them(regime)"

My email contact: seculardemocraticiran@gmail.com

​

A rather normal 'vox populi' discussion on a current USA channel program but dating (January 2015) from BEFORE the Egypt-Paris Islamic State terrorist attacks - undertaken in the name of ALL OF ISLAM and not in the name of the 'moderate muslim'. One day you and company might learn that there is indeed a difference.

Last edited by shiloh on Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:17 pm; edited 3 times in total​

 

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A 500 Trillion Dollar World


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